ciprianrx8

I've ordered one of their rx8 catbacks through their Europe store and UK based company. Please note that in my case I had a large bulky item shipped across the Atlantic. Also, RB markets themselves as some sort of premium brand with high end products. My particular order was on a sale - but now I wonder if it wasn't because of other reasons...
The exhaust I got had the following problems:

1. horrid welding of the pipes entering and exting both mufflers - irregular flow, heat penetration, slag was not cleared and just left be.
2. horrid welding inside of Y pipe, same slag issue. Now I am no welder by trade but it doesn't take an expert to spot hastily and carelessly made work.
3. lots of debris and burrs were left inside the exhaust - notice a huge one inside the Y pipe...
4. bent flange(s) between Y and the pipe that joins this Y/muffler assembly to the catalytic converter section. This alone made the exhaust unusable as it would leak.
5. later (as in today) discovered that one of the mufflers is lacking a 1" area where its endcap/endtank should have been welded but is not. Other muffler seems welded entirely so I think this unwelded area was not by design.

Contacted RB Europe 15 mins after unboxing the thing and many totally unproductive arguments started out. Points 1-4 were made known from my initial complaint. I will agree now that my initial message was on a harsh tone(but still explained clearly what was my issue and how we can fix it), and I admit I was fuming with anger as I was expecting top notch quality.

We couldn't agree that there are many things wrong mechanically with this exhaust. Communication was bad at first as RB would read about 1/2 of my text then jump to conclusions.
Initially they said that yes, well, this thing is hand made you know and while it doesn't look pretty it will work just fine. That bent flange? Just tighten it.. it won't leak. Only to later state that any part that was fitted is now not returnable(which of course is not - who would want a botched up part...) Much later on they did start to read everything, kudos to that. Keep in mind that for the 80% of our 18-emails chain I'd try and structure my argument as best I could, with paragraphs, underscores, italics, bolds, all to no awail. Speaking to a wall mostly.

Point 5 about the incompletely welded muffler was discovered today after I've learned RB won't ever consider anything but their own view so I never mentioned it since previous attempts failed badly. It wouldn't have made any difference to them anyway - whatever they sell is perfectly fine and good to fit on their car.

Then we started talking about return terms and after proposing a solution of equal cost to both parties. I asked for a 50% refund to have this hodge-podge of exhaust be cut up, cleared of debris, deburred, and rewelded almost entirely without those bent flanges. They have stopped replying at this point. I've waited 2 working days(given that they'd reply twice a day to this point). I've asked for a resolution or I'd go further with this matter towards some EU consumer right complaints agency. It later turned out that while legally possible, such endeavour would only sunk more cost into this problem and it was not guaranteed to be a quick matter.

This argument of ours ended with me being called a threatener, a bully, and an outright scammer. How nice of them. I was offered a 10% refund on product cost w/o shipping or a return on my own dime. I have weighed my options and while I was given a right to return, it would have been on my own dime and I'd have to lose shipping to me($80), import tax($220) and return shipping ($200 as I'm not a company to have arrangements with a courier). Then I would run the risk of RB saying "oh but you opened up the bubble wrap - that's another $200 we have to take off to bring it back to as new condition" - if our previous conversation is anything to judge by. Sellers in general tend to cling onto this to cut any losses on returns.

To them - let me lose $700, let us make our margin on returned items and let me search another exhaust. RB claims I am the sole buyer of any RB RX8 exhaust in 20 years to have issues with it. Tell that to anyone who ever ran a shop and they'll tell you no such thing exists. Me personally I've had ~ 500 customers for my compression testers and yes, I've replaced 8 of those for no charge, sent a new one ASAP and paid back return shipping for the bad ones. 6 of those needed a new 9V battery, 1 was dropped and had its power switch torn off and the other one failed internally. Problems arise even when making hotdogs for a $1, how you treat them is what matters.

To me - suck it up, hope it works, hope it won't sound like a 1932 truck with a broken muffler and hope it won't fall apart in a few heat cycles.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...87c4bf638e.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...34d8d6b980.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...db047563cd.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...e85484afc8.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...19e0498393.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...de666df5d3.jpg


What I've done wrong:

• started on a rash tone - I own up to that
• tried explaining my points that I don't want debris flying around my exhaust, neither do I want it to leak or start falling apart 1000 miles later. I should have just said I'm torching my car later today and I don't need this item anymore.
• wrote 250-300 words/email which some may find... too long to read entirely. This caused some name-calling on both ends.
• expected good quality, at least as good as chinese ebay "manzo" headers that are 1/10 of the cost of this item.
• bought outside the EU, or hoping that UK sellers are like EU/Asian ones which place great value on their reputation.

What Racing Beat has done wrong:

• never, ever admitting to any problem of any kind
• offered a product for a discount while not mentioning it was one of the worst units that came out; hence the discount
• offered misleading instructions(try to fit the exhaust then see it won't leak... if it does, sucks to be you as we don't accept it back)
• hardly paying any attention to my emails until urged 2 times to read them entirely
• knowing very well that the terms they offer are terrible to me they still insisted heavily on them
• "we make an exception of this and throw you an insulting 10% refund to show [whatever]" - not an actual quote but it sums up 99% of their point.
• topped everything up by calling me a scammer, bluntly shutting down any communication and "blacklisting my email"

Sounds like fun? Order from Racing Beat and hold on tight for the ride !

Original resolution pictures here: https://postimg.cc/gallery/bn9BLKZ/ddc3872f

TL; DR: was sent a poorly-made product and forced to take a significant loss on returning or keeping+fixing it, on top of being called a scammer, on top of pleading with whoever reads your email to read it entirely, on top of having to deal with a horrible shipping company.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Who ever Migged that was having a bad day... or a beginner.

There is really no excuse for something that expensive to not have a tig weld and proper fitment.

Killawatts

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Slag...inside the muffler is bothering you? Debris and burrs...inside the exhaust? How the hell would they remove a burr from inside the exhaust once it is welded together?

I'm not sure what you mean by an endcap not being welded, I see no pictures of that.

They aren't the prettiest most perfect welds, but a with a little polish and elbow grease they would look nice. Horrid is a vast over statement.

I could see the flange maybe leaking, but I doubt it. It is an easy fix regardless if it does, and not worth the hassle of a return.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

Wow, bummer of a story. Really sorry to hear about this. I'd say eat whatever it takes to return and never support them again. When buying Racing Beat today all you're really paying for is the name.

Unfortunately after Jim Mederer passed away a few years ago the direction of the company and quality control started going off the rails imo. There's been some discussion on the 7club about poor exhaust materials, design and / or quality. Material degradation seems to be a consistent complaint. My RX8 'race' cat-back has maybe 2k miles on it (mostly track) and looks like it's about to start rusting on the canister around the inlet; the area doesn't even look like stainless anymore.

peloponisios

Material degradation is here to stay. Every business has to deal with this on every sector. Buyers should be aware. Although, I've read on rx7 I think, that rb's exhausts and pipes are ok now.
Personally, I've dealt with rb europe a couple of times these past two years and all went well. Brexit screwed us over, so we have to pay import duties and taxes now for stuff from uk, that's a factor also.
From what I read here, it seems a communication breakdown to me. Hope it gets resolved.
My advice, take it with a bit of salt, if you have quality parts from the past, preserve them, you won't find them again. Everything new is a compromise.

ciprianrx8

To be upfront about future communication or ever setting things straight: there is no way it can ever happen and not because I don't want it.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

I agree with OP.
You pay a lot of money for a presumed quality product, you shouldn't get shoddy workmanship.
There shouldn't be slag, debris or sharp edges.
Those interior parts should be deburred before final assembly and welding.
I work in a manufacturing plant and there's special emphasis on that.
Not only for appearance, but safety.

If someone at my workplace did work like that the part would be rejected and the worker possibly reprimanded.
However, we do a lot of high dollar and municipal jobs so quality and appearance is a top priority.

The cynical me believes someone, maybe a trainee, new employee or even an impaired worker did a half fast job and they tried to pass it off on a customer who they knew would have little recourse but to accept it.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

not the worst or best I’ve ever seen having been in the stainless steel fab business for the last 27 years, but if anything it comes across more like you being a bit overboard. It’s kind of like people who watch tv shows and then get po’d because life isn’t letting them live a millionaire lifestyle that most people can’t afford, but is played off as “normal” in the fake illusion of tv world.

A lot of custom work you see on the web or youboob costs a lot more than you might imagine. It’s like Rob Dahm getting exposure and noobs treating him like some kind of rotary expert, when in reality he just has $$$ resources that at least a dozen or two folks on RX7Club could make him look foolish with if they had them as well. Try to remember you’re driving a beat up RX8, not a new $3Million Ferrari. The expectation and cost are both substantially different.

honestly BC, you can’t compare what you do to a production line cranking widgets out overseas for a lot less cost than your shop charges.
.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

The OP may have carried it a bit far, but I understand his being upset.

I assume Racing Beat is not "cranking out widgets" when it comes to fabbing exhausts.
It's not asking too much to expect at least decent quality from a reputable company.

I worked in high output production shops also in the 80s and 90s, running up to 4 machines simultaneously at the first CNC shop I worked at in the 90s.
Quality was important there too, and it was stressed to me if I knowingly passed off a bad part, I would be fired.
That always stuck with me.

A skilled worker, 'even' a welder, should consider himself a craftsman and take pride in his work

I stand by what I said.
That catback the OP paid for is at best disappointing.

Killawatts

There shouldn't be sharp edges on the inside of the exhaust? So the exhaust gases don't cut themselves on the way out? Any slag or burrs on the inside is just going to get shat out at worst. I don't understand how that can affect safety in this application, care to elaborate on that?

I can understand that it could have been better, for appearances sake, but even that is an overstatement from those pictures. It does not look bad to me, it's a muffler, not the mona lisa. And I do not believe for a second that this exhaust will do anything but function perfectly fine.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

It's a safety issue for the worker.
Sharp edges and burrs are a safety hazard when handling components.

When I machine a part, it's going to be handled again by another drill, mill, assembly or warehouse worker, so it's my responsibility to ensure there is nothing sharp to injure a coworker.
We have to file, sand, or use a die grinder on any sharp edges.
Also we have to ensure there are no metal chips or other residue inside the part.

ciprianrx8

Got an official opinion of RB USA on this case. It really seems this is the quality standard they find acceptable. I've heard opinions on both sides of the fence; I'll remain on my side and state that RB is just terribly overrated, well below chinese stuff you find on ebay at 1/5 of the cost. I've ran a $80 no name midpipe that was much better made and never gave me any reason for concern.

I can commend RB USA on replying emails quite fast and well given the holiday season. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

edit: live and learn, we all do.
.

MilosB

Even my ToyoSport came with better welds and no such mess on the inside...
Also from outside the metal looks coocked and will corode very quickly!

cajunrx8

I will agree the welding is not clean and piping should have been deburred well, the flange when the gasket is installed will actually seal better as it compresses the gasket and helps keep tension. I have seen the same type flange bowing on 500K construction machinery and they run 10k hours with no issues.

kevink0000

This will likely be a fairly functional part, but not something to get excited about. Part of the "fun" of bolt-ons is seeing a better quality part than stock get fitted to your car. Not the case here.

As a fan of RB, and a customer since 1986, I am not impressed either. I would have called them also, and ask them if they sent me a preproduction unit by mistake. Since they think this is a good piece, it's not a good look for them for the future. The pictures on the RB site show much better quality work.