gwilliams6

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/202...els_newsletter

Weasel_DB

It looks nice, although I wonder if the visibility will be good. The hood looks too beefy, like an older muscle car.

UnknownJinX

So uh... You gonna buy one(and hopefully be able to pay for the repair bills if the engine has your typical BMW reliability)?

I don't have much to add other than what is already said online. We will see how many people vote for this with their wallet.

wannawankel

BMW engine's don't have reliability issues, it's the stuff attached that does (VANOS valve timing system, Bosch coils, etc.). Same with VW - engine itself if properly maintained will run 300000 miles plus - but simple things attached to the VW like door handles, window cranks/motors, and all other items are Krap.

skc

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...new+supra+2019

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Paul.

UnknownJinX

Which still can be lumped under engine issues or at least problems that will evolve into engine issues.

It's like the crappy early ignition coils on our cars. Bad coils kill the cat, which kills the engine, and most people will say it's an engine issue.

And the point is, it's not Toyota reliability, as in my 99 Corolla that refused to die. The only thing is that it burns oil(due to a design flaw), more than the RX-8, but otherwise it works just okay for a 200k-mile car. I see a lot of 8th Gen Corollas daily around where I live, all still going strong.

Yeah, it's a sports car, but it's still a Toyota so I still expect it to be more reliable than a BMW, otherwise why in the world should I buy a Toyota?

There was even an article where someone asked Toyota representative on how the warranty on the Supra engine is gonna be, and they said Toyota was a bit hesitant before answering it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...sche-1.3629263

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Nope, zero interest in this car.

NotAPreppie

How are the things that are critical to the engine actually running not part of the engine? VANOS, coils, water pumps, etc... That's part of the engine.

Also, the VW 1.8T from 1997-2005 would beg to differ. Oil intake screens would clog up with coked oil from the turbo and starve the engine. This had the secondary effect of causing the cam chain tensioner to not keep tension which would cause the chain to wrap around a cam gear and chew out a huge chunk of the cylinder head (while also losing timing and bending valves). Or the coke would clog the turbo oil feed. Or the timing belts would be inspected at 60k miles and then fail at 65k miles (generally the tensioner). Or the coil packs would pack in faster than the RX-8 coils. Or the plastic water pump impeller would separate from the metal shaft and only turn at low RPMs.

The VW 2.8L V6 motors of the same era were notorious for drinking oil.

UnknownJinX

Honestly, I would say it's better off being a hybrid, which Toyota is really, really good at. At least Synergy is a proven system for about 2 decades now.

Imagine a Prius, but actually fast and fun, all while being reliable. It's gonna be automatic-only, but so is this Supra successor so I don't see the problem here.

strokercharged95gt

I'd rather have the Z4 with the manual transmission, and I don't want the Z4....

UnknownJinX

I have read some sources that Z4 is more of a Grand Tourer than the Supra, so there are differences.

I hope this difference extends to not having every single freakin' circuit being controlled by a computer.

hornbm

iTrader: (1)

I quite honestly expect toyota/bmw to do a left turn at some point and the supra will eventually get a manual. I just cant imagine the car will live its entire life with only a slushbox.

arakawa

It's supposed to start at $50k. Is Toyota thinking they can compete with the Corvette?

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/the...a-models.1500/

strokercharged95gt

They could of easily had an updated 2jz engine (3.0-3.4 liter) with better flowing head, VVTI, and bigger factory turbochargers matted to an updated V160/V161 transmission with a DCT option that makes 450-500 hp, and with the lighter weight of the mark 5 and better weight distribution and handling people would be lining up to put a down-payment on it. But no, they couldn't possible give the people what they want..... We get a 335 hp BMW Z4 with automatic transmission with a Supra badge. Remember in 93 when the base Corvette came with 300hp and the Supra had 320hp? Fast-forward 25 years and the Corvette comes with like 455hp and the Supra comes with maybe as little as 335hp? All this for 62k????? You could put a $100 down-pipe on a 93 and make more. The Toyota executives have to be shitting themselves at all the negativity surrounding this car. /end rant.

Fijibluefg2

UnknownJinX

Probably comes down to production cost if they develop and produce a 2JZ themself. It costs money to open a dedicated production line for it.

Anyway, I personally haven't said too much about no manual because I can't afford it anyway. If Toyota thinks this thing can sell then let's see how it goes.

I personally have been paying less attention to straight-line marks because EVs have proven themselves to be more capable.

Either I shift myself, or don't have a transmission. Simple as that.

One irony I have noticed, though: the new Toyota Corolla hatch supposedly can be had in manual trans option, complete with a rev-match button(which is usually something you see on much more expensive cars) and it's not just a bottom trim option. It's not even a hot hatch and that has a manual trans option, and yet a real sports car doesn't have it.

wannawankel

I am glad for one thing - the Supra didn't turn out to be a $90K base price. It is a nice car, not for me.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

To quote Clarkson's comment about the RX8: "it's like they had a commitee of ideas, and then said 'I know, let's do all of them!'"

UnknownJinX

At least Mazda actually did work on the project.

This Supra is one of those group projects: BMW does all the hard work, then Toyota walks in, checks the spelling, maybe changes the font, puts their name on it, and done.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Mmm are you sure? I had read that the Z4 and Supra teams were pretty separate once the bones were decided. I guess some parts were commodity: same engine, same infotainment. I guess we'll see when the Z4 is unveiled? Maybe all I read is a dirty lie.

But yes. This design is way too loud. Why does it have pocket vents?! What is back there, the navigation CPU?

UnknownJinX

You are probably right, but it sure gives you that unbalanced group project feeling.

And heh, at least it's not as "loud" as the Civic Type R...

gwilliams6

Here is the UNTOLD TRUE STORY
2020 Toyota Supra - BMW or Toyota?

delhi

Toyota today is not known for sports cars barring another rebadge job Gt86. BMW arguably is still one of the largest if not the largest producer of sporty rwd-based vehicles. So there are worse partners that Toyota can dance with. Maybe Toyota couldn't afford the M2/3/4 S55 engine. The b58 while not as sexy as the s55 engine it's still a solid performance block used across most BMW lines since 2016/17. Power tuning on the b58 is fairly good albeit fairly expensive. It's BMW after all.....

Don't follow this joint venture product much looks like it's not a whole lot different than the Fiata venture. Although the fiat did fit their own engine. I don't know if Toyota has a performance engine available for the supra. Hey at least it's still an inline 6!
I note that the z4 has more power?
Wheel gaps with the Supra is horrible.
Busy design which seems to be the carrying card for sporty Japanese cars these days. Ugh. They should get some inspiration from Mazda.
Interior is straight up BMW down to the bloody chime!

​​​​​​While both will have distinct driving characteristics, the Z4 is more BMW than the Supra is to Toyota.
Stock for stock I bet the M2 competition will eat the supra at Portimao.


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Loki

iTrader: (1)

The M2 Competition is the current champ in its market. Give it a few years, that's what I'm trading the 8 for, if it comes to that. It's not super clear to me what market the Supra is actually in. Who are the people that are supposed to love it?