ASH8

I don't know what to think of this, Mazda's independence did not last long...
May not happen, but probably will...

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...autonews-daily

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Judging by how lame Mazda is now days I would have thought Toyota already had some influence.

UnknownJinX

Yeah, I'd prefer a less boring ride...

I always find it hilarious that Toyota managed to put a 300 HP V6 into a Camry, and all the people on the Accord forum are jizzing over their pants. Yeah, because I see a lot of people driving the Camry will utilize that 300 HP(that comes out near 6k RPM or so), and I totally see how a lot of Camrys are driven like an RX-8.

On the other hand, Mazda 6 looks amazing but seems to have an underpowered 2.5 Atkinson engine. Given how Toyota and Honda both offer 2 engine options for Camry and Accord, might be a good idea for Mazda to put that 2.5T in the 6. That will definitely be a game changer.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

seems like a logical step based on their collaboration talks in 2015.
Mazda gets EV / hybrid tech which they can't afford to develop on their own and Toyota gets a skilled builder for their lame *** SUV's.
I think it's a win.

Mazda doesn't need to be independent, they need strong partners to help them innovate and survive.

UnknownJinX

As long as Mazda doesn't gain a "boring cars" status like Toyota, it's really all good.

And maybe, just maybe, Toyota will have better luck at Le Mans.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah and now the Accord gets the Civic Type R engine and 6MT as option. I remember when the Mazda 6 came out here and all the fan boys were blabbering about how cool it was going to be.

My buddy went from a 2010 RX8 GT to a Mazda 6 GT. He kept his 6GT for a few years or so and now has a new BMW 340i and he is just amazed considering he didn't pay that much more ($10,000.00 more several years later) for his 2017 340i.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

you shut your dirty ***** mouth!
every year I root against toyota winning because I want Mazda to remain the only Japanese manufacturer to have accomplished that feat.

I imagine it's much like the '72 Dolphins rooting against the Patriots every season.

UnknownJinX

Accord will have 1.5T and 2.0T, the latter, like you said, will be a detuned Civic Type R engine. Honda also claimed that they listened to the "save the manual" voices and kept the 6MT as an option. This leaves the Accord and the 6 as the only mid-size Sedans that offer MT options.

Personally, I think Honda has got it right with the engine. Turbos have a good amount of low-end torque, something both spirited and boring drivers can benefit from. The Camry V6 should really go in something RWD and designed to be fun, not a Camry where it will never shine(save for the slightly better smoothness compared to the I4).

Like I said, 6 would be much better if Mazda offers a detuned CX-9 2.5T as an option. It will be fun, practical, and nice-looking(the new Accord is a bit hideous IMO, and Camry is just meh).

Even if Toyota wins at some point, Mazda will still be the first Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans. That will NEVER change. Mazda also is the only one that used a pistonless engine to win, which is also something that's very unlikely to change.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

that meme is awesome.

gwilliams6

USA Today puts joint plant value at $1.6 billion dollars. Wonder how much is Mazda's share of the financed investment?

Toyota, Mazda to build $1.6B, 4,000-job U.S. plant

zoom44

this could mean a Mazota to replace the Toyobaru...

zoom44

detuned? hell nah. it makes 250hp and 310 T. there is no reason to change that down for the 6.

MattMPS

Less independence for Mazda, but future granted.

probably this means a possible return of RWD cars (not sportscar) for Mazda.

now Mazda is in the Toyota galaxy like Subaru.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

No one mentioned Mazda's 0.25% stake in Toyota, which is equally as significant as the 5% stake in Mazda. Look at it from that point of view.

MattMPS

Toyota is valued 20 times Mazda. pure math.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

It's not a dollar to dollar match, but it forges liability onto both ends of the table.

We better see some exciting cars (in addition to EV econoboxes) to come out of Mazda in the coming years.

UnknownJinX

Well, being a mid-size family car, most buyers don't need 310 ft-lb torque down low... CX-9 needs it due to its size, but the 6 will do fine will a bit less. If you want that torque, just tune the engine.

Same deal with the 18 Accord. The 2.0T version uses a detuned Civic Type R engine, so most people will just do fine with the factory setting, and the few who want the power and torque can safely tune it to match the Type R spec.

hornbm

iTrader: (1)

I'm assuming this deal is what enables Mazda to do hybrids when they are ready.

The Mazda 3 hybrid in Japan is based on Toyota tech from what I understand.

wannawankel

I think it's a great investment. Mazda has some great mojo and Toyota can ensure it lasts and learn from it. If it gets us a Mazdaspeed x and rotary goodness - I'm all for it!

Williard

iTrader: (18)

This may get us the next generation of Supra.


Travis

Are-Ex-Eight

iTrader: (1)

This is nothing more than Mazda scrambling to get a foot in the door of the USA just in case the international trade deals between the USA and Japan are re-negotiated.

They don't have the cash to build a brand new plant in the USA on their own so...enter Toyota.

ASH8

The new US car plant is a 50;50 venture, $800 million from Mazda, $800 million from Toyota, and Mazda does have the cash.
This was being negotiated back in 2015 before Trump, fact remains today Mazda is running out of capacity.
Waiting lists/time for new owners is not good.

The only one which is a little strange is Mazda teaming with Isuzu for the next BT-50 replacement as this will be the end of any Ford product in a Mazda vehicle.
Techs are wondering what/where Mazda will do for Servicing Diagnostics, since OBD II (about 2002) Mazda has used Ford IDS, once the BT-50 ends so does Ford/Mazda IDS.
Many thought Mazda will go with Toyota when they signed the technical alliance in 2015 and still probably will, the only one out will be the new Isuzu/Mazda ute with Isuzu having their own vehicle diagnostics, Dealers will not be happy with 2 all new systems from about 2020, plus Mazda (Ford) IDS used up to 2002-2019 made cars.
Or Mazda may develop their own new Servicing Diagnostic Software/Hardware incorporating Ford UI and Toyota and Isuzu ?
Why not Mazda go with a Toyota Hi-Lux/Tundra clone made in Toyota Thailand as the BT-50/Ranger replacement.


So what will they call this all new plant? any suggestions?..
Mazota Vehicle Manufacturing Ltd USA
Toymaz Car Alliance USA
Toyoda, hang on that name exists for CEO.
Maztoy
Toyozda
Tozmay...

Yeah, lame I know...

zoom44

Im Partial to Mazota

It's about capacity, the Yen/Dollar fluctuation and R&D. Neither Mazda nor Toyota have been able to keep up with demand for their Crossovers, both have had profit suffer from the Yen fluctuation and they both need more alliances that can share R&D work as the industry moves forwar this is imperative.

Plus after the recent article about long time test driver for Toyota, Hiromu Naruse, in R&T http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...t-test-driver/ I think I understand something about Akio Toyoda. He's a Mazda Fan.

ASH8

And the WINNER is ALABAMA state for all new Mazda/Toyota joint production plant.

NC was in the final running , but Alabama was chosen and I guess this state has extensive suppliers on-stream for Mercedes, Nissan and a few others I think...

Does NC state have any car plants?

neit_jnf

did you guys see this? Future electric Toyota to feature Mazda's Rotary Range Extender? What?

Mazda rotary engine may find new life in self-driving Toyota e-Palette project