slightly different frs thread
 

After scouring both around here and on the frs/ft86 like forums, there are tons of threads comparing the two cars. Often bickering why one is better than the other. Mostly with a bias to the forum you are on. But what if we could turn back time and get subaru/toyota to look at designing their car in conjunction with mazda as opposed to toyota/subaru? (Depends on how you look at development of the car etc) we would end up with either a superb chassis with a boxer engine and an edgy design.....or the more mazda centered design I envision an frs/brz with chassis refinement and a beautiful rotary engine stuffed under the hood! Having my own RX8 and having driven both a brz and frs (which are for all intinsive purposes the same car) I could really appreciate the toyobaru twins and what they do. I do feel the RX8 is the better car between the two if you have to have my opinion. I had fun in them and wouldn't mind having one either. But while on my short trips I couldn't help but wonder what it would be like if it had the 8s engine in it. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Since we can't time travel (backwards) what about thoughts on the future of the rotary? There is talk of the RX7 revival/RX9 that everyone is excited about as well. We can hope mazda pulls out the stops and knocks it out of the park. With a refined rotary powerplant in a package similar to the twins....but you know with more hp and maybe torque, and weigh about the same (preferably less) and most importantly price tag (also preferably less haha) who else would be excited to see some competition in this area with something like that?

id rather see a fd engine in the frs

if Mazda would put the 16X engine into a 2 door lightweight package to get a 9-10 to 1 wgt/hp ratio, include an 8 speed dual clutch trans with the same braking and steering of the RX8---the cars would fly off the dealership floor.

Sure if you part of the very small percentage of people who know what your talking about.

Most people dont know thier ass from thier elbow when it comes to cars, people think just because they watch Top Gear they know everything about cars, all that show tells you is big V8 engines are dominate and big V8's with superchargers and turbos are unstoppable. (which isn't necessarly false) But when it comes to Pwr/Wgt ratio's and dual clutches people don't know wtf that is or what it means, all they say is "my car has 310hp its super fast" meahwhile its a 3,700lb dodge charger that is a sled but over 300hp sounds good. Or better yet a stock honda civic with 190hp but weighs 2900lbs that think its all about light weight but in retrospec is about the same speed as that underpowered charger, because both focus on 1 side of the spectrum instead of the whole formula.

You always have to keep in mind only a few of us are real car people who truly understand WHY an expensive performance car is expensive, all other people see is an over priced "quick" car and will usually save the Obama Bucks for the cheaper alternative because in thier mind its what thier looking for.

Very well put Coldwound!

They would need much less for strong sales if they could be proven fuel efficient and reliable. Most people have heard how much fun a rotary can be as well as most people have heard of their tarnished reliability and pathetic fuel mileage.

Paul.

you probably have no idea how funny that is :rofl:

Jeremy's not all bad, he put the MX5 and the RX8 in his top 16 best ever cars. :bowdown:

i get it Team.

no offense, but who is offering an 8-speed dual-clutch trans that is idiot-proof enough to put in an affordable production car?

no one yet--but by 2017 they will. Hyundai has a unique 8 speed auto with 4 internal clutches ( but one drive clutch) and Mercedes is also pursuing the 8 speed.
The Zf 8 speed transmission's company says the advantages of its transmission are not so much the eight speeds (which help to keep the engine in its optimal range, and reduces the number of tradeoffs required in tuning), but the high efficiency — a claimed 98% efficiency in any gear, with an extremely rapid locking torque converter — and high speed, with shifting taking place faster than a person can perceive it.
Transmissions are developing almost as rapid as engines now a days.
Dont just focus on an engine.

I took a test drive of a BRZ yesterday, and while it is very nice and behaves similarly to the 8 the one thing that I learned is that I've been spoiled by the smoothness of the rotary since I've had my 8. That 4-banger seemed very harsh compared to the renesis.

Thats how I felt. Its not that it wasnt a good or fun car, but I just kept imagining if mazda was helping instead of Toyota. If it could have had the same basic chassis with some mazda fine tuning and even a tricked out/improved renesis. It would have a smooth powertrain that screams and moving a smaller package like that would feel even faster. It would be pure fun. Its kinda what id like the new RX to be. Just pure unadulterated fun

Mazda doesn't need Toyota or Subaru to make a great sports car. They have proven that over and over.

If you do your research you will find out the FRS is not that great of a car.

Noisy piece of junk that has engine and electrical problems.

This thread should die, idc about any of the affirmed "information" it has in it. Its a host to attract all the undesirables that think they have an opinion based on fact when in reality its just pointless banter.

Threads like this are the source of this forums problems, not for the lack of ingenuity and potential they have for a mature and intellectual debate/conversation, but for the fact that members are incapable of following up with such and it will be a place for attacks and uniformed opinions followed by emotional attacks when no one agrees.

Please Close

Yes carbon, it is basically pointless banter. But then again lots of the forum has it (pointless banter) but I didn't envision this thread to have people squabbling over which persons idea of the car is best and defending ideals etc. To the death. However..... it can/does happen. If you would like it closed, then by all means have it done. It's just a thread for fun conversation and ideas. If that cant/wont happen then its ok to close it down

I will repeat what a US journalist said about the ToySub twins and comparing them to current MX-5/Miata..

He basically said they were both great but did not touch the refinement and exquisiteness of the MX-5....he said something like the Boxter twins chassis feel/handling was like playing a violin with one string, where as the Miata had the full accompaniment of strings...in other words sublime feedback/handling..driver oneness.

I too.

Me TOO!...

8 Speed Auto's...what do car makers think we drive 80+ wheel B-triple Semi's??

Does this Hyundai Auto Trans come with High and Low range shifters too...I guess?.
Diff lock up and Exhaust brakes???

More complexity, more weight, more to go wrong and too much gear choice.

8 speeds? What a waste. You do not need an 8 speed transmission unless your car can top 300 mph. 6 is more than enough. Unless of course your engine is so pathetic that it has a 10 rpm wide powerband. The more gears you put in a transmission case the weaker each gear becomes since you only have so much room to work with. Audi ran into that problem with their R10 race car when it first came out. They were left with a 5 speed as opposed to a 6 speed since the torque their engine created was too much for a 6 speed. They've since fixed that since they make less power now but the point is clear. Even though we are talking about far less power in a street car you can't just install 100 gears and expect strength to stay high. Even in a 6 speed I almost always skip a gear. The transmission wars are completely stupid and they are furthered by people who don't know what performance truly is who only care that they have "more".