ND MX-5 Club, '17 BRZ Series Yellow
05-27-2017, 06:57 PM
#1
ND MX-5 Club, '17 BRZ Series Yellow
Test drove both of these today.
For those who don't know, the Club trim on the MX-5 comes with Bilstein dampers, Brembo front brakes, BBS wheels, and bespoke Bridgestones. The BRZ Series Yellow includes the Performance Package, which is Sachs dampers, Brembo brakes all around, and OZ wheels. So, each car was in its top factory spec in terms of handling and braking.
The BRZ felt excellent. A lot like my R3, honestly -- just a bit lighter, a bit more positive, slower, and less grippy. Made me want to keep driving and push it harder, for better and for worse. That frustrating dip in the torque curve between 3.5k and 5k is still there, but everything else about it was good-to-excellent and a big step on from the pre-facelift FR-S I've driven.
The MX-5 was a very different car. More compliance, which is nice -- but also more body roll, which dulled the steering response. Slight but perceptible cowl shake. Overall, it was comparable in terms of fun, and marginally more rewarding at normal-person speeds. Plus there's the obvious benefit of a convertible. It just felt less tied-down when pushed, even though it's marginally more capable by the numbers.
One way to summarize the comparison is that it depends on what you want to do when you see a backroad. If you want to cruise it and enjoy the scenery, you want the MX-5. If you want to bomb it, you want the BRZ.
For those who don't know, the Club trim on the MX-5 comes with Bilstein dampers, Brembo front brakes, BBS wheels, and bespoke Bridgestones. The BRZ Series Yellow includes the Performance Package, which is Sachs dampers, Brembo brakes all around, and OZ wheels. So, each car was in its top factory spec in terms of handling and braking.
The BRZ felt excellent. A lot like my R3, honestly -- just a bit lighter, a bit more positive, slower, and less grippy. Made me want to keep driving and push it harder, for better and for worse. That frustrating dip in the torque curve between 3.5k and 5k is still there, but everything else about it was good-to-excellent and a big step on from the pre-facelift FR-S I've driven.
The MX-5 was a very different car. More compliance, which is nice -- but also more body roll, which dulled the steering response. Slight but perceptible cowl shake. Overall, it was comparable in terms of fun, and marginally more rewarding at normal-person speeds. Plus there's the obvious benefit of a convertible. It just felt less tied-down when pushed, even though it's marginally more capable by the numbers.
One way to summarize the comparison is that it depends on what you want to do when you see a backroad. If you want to cruise it and enjoy the scenery, you want the MX-5. If you want to bomb it, you want the BRZ.
05-28-2017, 08:23 AM
#3
Part of it was helping a friend with a possible car purchase, and part of it was keeping up with what's out there.
The R3 is the right car for me right now and I feel no need to move on. But one reason is that I need back seats, and the RX-8's are about as small as I can use. If it weren't for that, the '17 BRZ with Performance Pack would be sorely tempting. So would the MX-5 Club if I fit comfortably in it (I don't, unfortunately). They're both more agile, more communicative, more fuel efficient, and likely to be MUCH better supported in the aftermarket than the RX-8. Plus, they are both new cars with new car warranties. What they give up to the RX-8 is largely about *****-out capability. That ain't nothing, but it doesn't mean much on the street. Beyond that, which one "handles" best depends on how much you value tied-down-and-stable vs. light-and-playful. Handling-wise, you could make a good argument for any of them. If I had to pick one or be shot, I'd have to pick the BRZ PP, but it's far from a slam-dunk.
So yeah, I'm not gonna say a BRZ PP or MX-5 Club is "better" than an RX-8. But if you're thinking of moving on and can compromise on back seats, they're both worth a hard look.
The R3 is the right car for me right now and I feel no need to move on. But one reason is that I need back seats, and the RX-8's are about as small as I can use. If it weren't for that, the '17 BRZ with Performance Pack would be sorely tempting. So would the MX-5 Club if I fit comfortably in it (I don't, unfortunately). They're both more agile, more communicative, more fuel efficient, and likely to be MUCH better supported in the aftermarket than the RX-8. Plus, they are both new cars with new car warranties. What they give up to the RX-8 is largely about *****-out capability. That ain't nothing, but it doesn't mean much on the street. Beyond that, which one "handles" best depends on how much you value tied-down-and-stable vs. light-and-playful. Handling-wise, you could make a good argument for any of them. If I had to pick one or be shot, I'd have to pick the BRZ PP, but it's far from a slam-dunk.
So yeah, I'm not gonna say a BRZ PP or MX-5 Club is "better" than an RX-8. But if you're thinking of moving on and can compromise on back seats, they're both worth a hard look.
05-28-2017, 10:05 AM
#4
Yea the back seats are a must. I need to be able to haul my hockey gear around and the trunk isn't large enough. That is the reason i didn't go with an S2000 or 350z when I bought my 8 (7 years ago). For now its a daily duty car, although the mileage is starting creep up (127K). If it was purely a weekender I would probably ditch it and pick up a Miata.
Last edited by Chrishoky; 05-28-2017 at 10:09 AM.
05-29-2017, 06:31 AM
#5
Gotcha. In that case, I got nothing for you. Played this game myself ad nauseum and ended up with an 8 myself, and I'm not aware of anything that has come out in the past few years that'd change the calculus. Even the closest competitors (E36, E46, E82, etc.) need mods just to get to the level of a stock RX-8.
Even if cost is no object, it's still hard to think of a possible alternative with equal-or-bigger back seats and storage space. Like, we're talking M2, M3, ATS sedan, Panamera, FF/GTC4 Lusso, etc. But they're all some combination of heavier/turbocharged/auto-only/maintenance nightmare, and few have steering feel that's as good as the 8's (not that the 8's is even that good BTW).
Of course, if we introduce criteria besides handling, things open way up, and most of what I just said starts to look REALLY silly. But I guess that's another thread. :]
If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at S2s and basically nothing else.
Even if cost is no object, it's still hard to think of a possible alternative with equal-or-bigger back seats and storage space. Like, we're talking M2, M3, ATS sedan, Panamera, FF/GTC4 Lusso, etc. But they're all some combination of heavier/turbocharged/auto-only/maintenance nightmare, and few have steering feel that's as good as the 8's (not that the 8's is even that good BTW).
Of course, if we introduce criteria besides handling, things open way up, and most of what I just said starts to look REALLY silly. But I guess that's another thread. :]
If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at S2s and basically nothing else.
Last edited by IamFodi; 05-30-2017 at 12:12 PM.
05-29-2017, 04:15 PM
#6
Water Foul
When I was shopping for a sports car 4 years ago, I test drove the NC Miata and the BRZ. Actually, I test drove BRZs and FRSs 4 times. I kept thinking, "I should really like this car!" But, I didn't for some reason. Then, I test drove my RX-8 and found what I was looking for.
As an instructor at my local track, I get to drive a lot of student cars, and have recently driven the Toybaru twins and ND Miatas. I agree with IamFodi. Both are excellent examples of "slow car fast" that satisfy different goals. The Toybarus like to be tossed around, and the Miata is more of a "rides on rails" car, with a lot of body roll and feedback.
This is a lame, predictable prognostication, but to me, the ND Miata is the one Mazda wanted to build, when they were "forced" by Ford to base the NC on the RX-8 platform. It is smaller, lighter, more nimble, and more communicative.
Having said all of that, my RX-8 (as set up) is still about 2 seconds faster than the best examples of both of the other cars that I have driven against on our 1.7 mile course.
As an instructor at my local track, I get to drive a lot of student cars, and have recently driven the Toybaru twins and ND Miatas. I agree with IamFodi. Both are excellent examples of "slow car fast" that satisfy different goals. The Toybarus like to be tossed around, and the Miata is more of a "rides on rails" car, with a lot of body roll and feedback.
This is a lame, predictable prognostication, but to me, the ND Miata is the one Mazda wanted to build, when they were "forced" by Ford to base the NC on the RX-8 platform. It is smaller, lighter, more nimble, and more communicative.
Having said all of that, my RX-8 (as set up) is still about 2 seconds faster than the best examples of both of the other cars that I have driven against on our 1.7 mile course.
05-30-2017, 12:41 AM
#7
Super Moderator
Like the NC the ND must have Firmer (thicker) Sway Bars, they remove 70% of the worse body roll.
Unfortunately for the ND you have to go aftermarket, I guess some are made now?
With my NC2 (Series 2) with Sports Suspension (Factory Bilsteins and different Springs) adding the RX-8 Series 2 Sway Bars front and rear made a HUGE difference. The only other mod I did was the German made under floor meaty X Brace, Diff Brace and rear Butterfly Brace which also tightened up the chassis, I added one new piece at a time and road tested one at a time to see what was the best add on, and without doubt the Sways, then Braces.
I also installed R3 (S2) OEM Brakes front and rear, yes it adds more un-sprung weight, BUT, the shocks and springs took it with ease, and it makes the NC feel like an RX-8, just more planted on the road, gone is the Miata tippy lightness which is good and bad, she no longer trips up going around bends, IMO the stock NC and ND is just a little too light...it is taste I guess, but the RX-8 spoiled me and I wanted my NC to feel the same.
I just LOVE my NC PRHT, it is a bloody joy to drive, But I really pine for a Rotary Engine in it.
Again IMO one of Mazda's biggest mistakes, the platform was there the parts already were there (apart from a specific PPF and Prop Shaft and stronger Rear Diff and Suspension Frame, ALL would have cost bugger all to make for a RX-5....but it never happened.
Unfortunately for the ND you have to go aftermarket, I guess some are made now?
With my NC2 (Series 2) with Sports Suspension (Factory Bilsteins and different Springs) adding the RX-8 Series 2 Sway Bars front and rear made a HUGE difference. The only other mod I did was the German made under floor meaty X Brace, Diff Brace and rear Butterfly Brace which also tightened up the chassis, I added one new piece at a time and road tested one at a time to see what was the best add on, and without doubt the Sways, then Braces.
I also installed R3 (S2) OEM Brakes front and rear, yes it adds more un-sprung weight, BUT, the shocks and springs took it with ease, and it makes the NC feel like an RX-8, just more planted on the road, gone is the Miata tippy lightness which is good and bad, she no longer trips up going around bends, IMO the stock NC and ND is just a little too light...it is taste I guess, but the RX-8 spoiled me and I wanted my NC to feel the same.
I just LOVE my NC PRHT, it is a bloody joy to drive, But I really pine for a Rotary Engine in it.
Again IMO one of Mazda's biggest mistakes, the platform was there the parts already were there (apart from a specific PPF and Prop Shaft and stronger Rear Diff and Suspension Frame, ALL would have cost bugger all to make for a RX-5....but it never happened.
05-30-2017, 10:39 AM
#8
When I was shopping for a sports car 4 years ago, I test drove the NC Miata and the BRZ. Actually, I test drove BRZs and FRSs 4 times. I kept thinking, "I should really like this car!" But, I didn't for some reason. Then, I test drove my RX-8 and found what I was looking for.
What did you think of the NC?
Like the NC the ND must have Firmer (thicker) Sway Bars, they remove 70% of the worse body roll.
Unfortunately for the ND you have to go aftermarket, I guess some are made now?
With my NC2 (Series 2) with Sports Suspension (Factory Bilsteins and different Springs) adding the RX-8 Series 2 Sway Bars front and rear made a HUGE difference. The only other mod I did was the German made under floor meaty X Brace, Diff Brace and rear Butterfly Brace which also tightened up the chassis, I added one new piece at a time and road tested one at a time to see what was the best add on, and without doubt the Sways, then Braces.
Unfortunately for the ND you have to go aftermarket, I guess some are made now?
With my NC2 (Series 2) with Sports Suspension (Factory Bilsteins and different Springs) adding the RX-8 Series 2 Sway Bars front and rear made a HUGE difference. The only other mod I did was the German made under floor meaty X Brace, Diff Brace and rear Butterfly Brace which also tightened up the chassis, I added one new piece at a time and road tested one at a time to see what was the best add on, and without doubt the Sways, then Braces.
I suspect that for both the MX-5 and RX-8, a lot of the body roll is designed into the suspension geometry. That'd mean dialing it out with sway bars would have a significant compliance penalty.
05-31-2017, 08:33 AM
#9
Water Foul
^ I like the NC, but I like the ND better. The NC is very much like an RX-8, with a shorter wheelbase. It is smaller overall, feels a little less refined, and handles more go-kart-y.