gwilliams6

Mazda Says Its Next-Generation Gasoline Engine Will Run Cleaner Than an Electric Car

UnknownJinX

Sounds like vaporware as of now, since there is not any details...

56 percent is a lot, BTW. Supposedly, that's the level of efficiency an Otto cycle engine can theoretically achieve. Even a Carnot engine(which doesn't and can't exist) will yield only about 70% efficiency.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I can see the ads now, "Mazda, the new slightly less boring Toyota"

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

might as well, they're already there ...

UnknownJinX

There is actually a lot of Mazdas around where I live. The people living downstairs in the house I live in right now have a 3 that's probably as old as my 8.

Driving dynamics aside(since I haven't test driven any new Mazda family cars), their styling still stands out when compared to Toyota and Honda.

Most car buyers care about stuff like infotainment system, fuel economy, and interior than how well a car handles or the 0~60 times. It's bad from a car person perspective, but unless you can somehow change the majority of the car buyers, there is not much we can do.

NotAPreppie

The problem is that so few people care about driving dynamics. I'd bet that 80% of the car-buying public prioritize safety, reliability, affordability, brand image, comfort above driving dynamics.

Mazda have differentiated themselves by focusing on this and they've painted themselves into a corner. Subaru are doing (have done?) the transition from "interesting alternative" to "mainstream" brand and it resulted in a healthy dose of sales success.

Mazda are trying the "move upmarket" thing but I don't know how well it's going to work.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

IMO Mazda is hammering on value. The cars are a little quirky, which is better than bland, but they're also well thought out, well featured, appealing and not expensive. It's not a master of any specific trade, but a jack of enough that when you sit down for a test-drive.

By the way, in Canada cars are about twice as expensive as the US compared to the standard of living, and Mazda is doing well. They're everywhere. In the US, it's still an "interesting alternative" as you say, because upmarket models are within reach of the same people who are looking at Mazdas. That's in principle why I think they're trying to move upmarket, but it's tricky. They're also taking the current formula to South America pretty aggresively, hoping to offset the lackluster success in the US.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Not expensive? I saw a fully loaded 3 on the show room floor for 38k a while back. My buddy paid 40k for his Mazda 6 GT when he bought it new years back and now recently only paid 45k for his brand new 340i M Sport after his military special discount or whatever.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

38k?! I just priced out a 3 on the website, with ALL the options and accessories, radar cruise control whatevers, including some silly $1000 thing to start the car from your phone, and delivered it's 34k Canadian. That should be roughly equivalent to $28k in the US.

MSRP for a 3 Sport without the packages and options is 25k CAD, so in the teens US?

I guess I never visited a Mazda dealer in the US, but that pricing sounds bananas.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I had to take a step back for sure. I mean it probably (can't find the pics I took a couple of years back) had a ton of dealer options which probably accounted for the extra 10k but it's still nuts. And my friends 6 GT was okay, but not 40k okay as it is still a slow FWD sedan.


But I'm glad I don't live in Australia or other places where cars are even more stupid expensive.

https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...20140128-31k9f

ASH8

Well your dollar is down 8% since the new Pres (not blaming him), lower dollar means more expensive imports, but cheaper exports (not sure how many cars US makes and exports, I know Australia/UK gets the Mustang), another reason I guess why Mazda are building their own new plant in Ala with Toyota and have heard it will be a twin plant with two lines one for Toy and one for Maz.

ASH8

Mazda 3 in USA..

The 2.0l is made in Mexico, the 2.5 is Japan made.

ASH8

Tell me about it.

Now Australia no longer has a local manufacturing Auto industry to protect (all ended end 2017) many are just waiting for a Auto bitch fight to happen so we are NO LONGER RIPPED OFF!

For the past 26 years the economy and car industry has been growing, the bubble will burst and then we hope a price war....we need a real war.

A loaded CX-9 (not Signature, so with less) is $69.980 here !

ASH8

Anyway back to thread topic, this really is the end on the Rotary, do you really think Mazda is going to add any RE powered only car that only gets 22 mpg to their fleet, no, they will protect their most fuel efficient cars in the world award for past 5 years in a row.

Give it up guys, I called this 6 years ago, yeah we will see a 330 cc **** box generator rotary, YAWN.

UnknownJinX

I can totally see an According Touring V6/2.0T going to US$40k when new. The 2.0T has a MSRP of US$35k right now. They are plenty quick for what they are as well. A little surprising to see a 6 to be as expensive, though, since it only has one engine option(2.5 NA) until now.

As for BMW, some of them may not be much more expensive than a fully loaded Honda/Mazda, but maintenance and repair is where they will get you. When I had my 8 towed once(due to a short in the ignition), I asked the tow truck driver what kind of car they tow the most. He told me he tows a lot of BMWs and Mercedes.

UnknownJinX

China is in the same boat...

There is an article that's from the same website in OP's link. The article mainly talks about Skyactiv-X, but the article said that they also asked about rotary. Mazda representatives said that they have a team of fewer than 20 people working on it, and no concrete plan for production...

NotAPreppie

Mazda won't be producing another sportscar beyond the MX-5 for a while, let alone a rotary sportscar.

The market just isn't there anymore.

ASH8

Yes, read it all before, do you think Mazda are going to say anything else, they are masters at it. When current CEO said no RE about 5 years ago (unless they can make 100K units a year) Mazda's stock price dropped....so..

It has been 10 years since the Renisis II (S2) update, there has been no all new RE car developed since it made it into production. I refer to my 22 MPG comment.

Mazda has never stopped making the RE for over 40 years, that came to an end in 2012. I still say I cant not see a viable market for one, at what price and at how many sales.
Maybe if MNAO lifted its game and grew instead of going backwards for the past 15+ years, they sell less units than they did in 2003, almost every year since.
And I blame FoMoCo for that, Koreans ate Mazda's lunch years ago in USA.

New Yorker

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

neit_jnf

currently the most efficient production engine supposedly is Toyota's newer atkinson cycle at 40-41% (there's a F1 AMG at 50%)

Sky-X appears to be at 44% when it comes to production it will be the most efficient

From 44% to 56% is a large jump!

UnknownJinX

Both.

From a car person point of view, it's interesting.

From a business perspective, it could be a mistake.

NotAPreppie

From a marketing perspective, you have to differentiate yourself from the rest. Honda and Toyota do it by being reliable. Subaru used to do it by being "interesting" and then used "the beauty of all wheel drive". Infiniti was the sportier Lexus and Lexus was the reliable Mercedes. Saab and Volvo were all about safety for a while. Volvo really needs to start selling the amazingness of their seats.

The problem is when your differentiation appeals to a shrinking market. Mazda know they need something new because buyers of mainstream cars care less and less about driving. I'd bet that market research has told them that buyers with a bit more money care more about driving dynamics and that's why they're doing this up-market push.

MattMPS

i agre 100%. Mazda is not a big Brand, roughly 1,5 mln cars sold/year, needs to focus in a more upmarket segment and really star to sell the "joy of driving" typical of the brand.

They can afford because Mazda is not a Brand of 3 or 4 millions cars/year.

They need a RWD sedan and the counterpart SUV (see Alfa Giulia/Stelvio, BMW sr3/X3, Jaguar XE/F-Pace, MB C class / GLC and so on).

In my opinion the SUV could be build in the new facility in Alabama, and sold in all the world. just what BMW and MB are doing since 2 or 3 decades.

built in USA , sold everywhere

The sedan (produced in less numbers) could be build in Japan. numbers could be:

150.000 cars for the SUV (numbers declared by Mazda about CX-X and Alabama factory)

35-40000 for the RWD Sedan

Gasoline, diesel and hybrid version for both. AWD possible on each model.

just my 2 cent.

keck03

iTrader: (2)

Thats crazy since I paid $18k for a Mazda3 Touring (manual) new in 2013 and this past summer traded it in and got a new 17 Mazda6 Touring (manual) for $21k. $21k made it cheaper that the Accord Sport I was comparing it with that had a base motor and cloth seats.

I buy new Mazda daily drivers because I can find them in manual in mid trim levels. Finding a manual mid trim Accord new on a lot is extremely difficult. I don't want a base trim daily driver just because I refuse to settle for an automatic. Mazda 6 GTs can sticker up with all the options for high 30s but those same cars are sitting on lots and dealers are begging you to take them by taking quite a bit off.