Mazda RX-VISION Concepts
10-02-2015, 03:22 PM
#201
Here in Austin TX, Mazda's are everywhere. In NY where I'm from though, they're definitely very uncommon.
My local dealership (Roger Beasley central) actually gave me a standard transmission Mazda 3 as a loaner the other day while my 8 was under maintenance. I don't like the car, it feels far too bulky from dailying an 8, but damn the gearbox and clutch operation is super amazing for an economy car.
Back to the Toyota thing, I heard rumors of a "Twins" RX7 also, but would Toyota really get involved with a wankel? That seems hard to believe.
My local dealership (Roger Beasley central) actually gave me a standard transmission Mazda 3 as a loaner the other day while my 8 was under maintenance. I don't like the car, it feels far too bulky from dailying an 8, but damn the gearbox and clutch operation is super amazing for an economy car.
Back to the Toyota thing, I heard rumors of a "Twins" RX7 also, but would Toyota really get involved with a wankel? That seems hard to believe.
10-02-2015, 08:39 PM
#202
They are not as big as they should be, agreed, but they are not as small as you think.
Mazda USA outsells: Lexus, Buick, Audi, Cadillac, Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, Mitsubishi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Porsche, Mini.
Mazda USA outsells the combined sales of Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Porsche.
Mazda USA outsells: Lexus, Buick, Audi, Cadillac, Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, Mitsubishi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Porsche, Mini.
Mazda USA outsells the combined sales of Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Porsche.
2014 Accord U.S. sales : 388,374
Camry : 428,606
6 : 53,224 (surprisingly still less than '03 to '08 annual volume)
2014 Civic U.S. sales : 325,981
Corolla : 339,498
3 : 104,985 (still below '07, '08 & '12 volume)
2014 CR-V U.S. sales : 335,019 (highest volume on record)
RAV 4 : 267,698 ( ditto)
CX-5 : 99,122
Rebrand the showrooms, raise their service level, take it more upscale, offer free maintenance on all cars, push performance more on all cars, bring back zoom-zoom live, better advertise their cars and wins/awards etc. In short, they need to put more money behind the ownership experience. That's how Subaru grew.
Mazda revamping dealers with 'Retail Evolution'
10-05-2015, 07:48 AM
#203
Paul.
10-05-2015, 03:23 PM
#204
to meet modern day performance standards it will almost have to be a 3 rotor---OR
maybe they will settle for the moderate performance line and drop it into a hardtop mx5. If it is the 16x with direct injection----there goes the aftermarket. it will be hard to boost that one.
X fingers--- i would sell the ZO6 in a heartbeat if the RIGHT rotary car was released
maybe they will settle for the moderate performance line and drop it into a hardtop mx5. If it is the 16x with direct injection----there goes the aftermarket. it will be hard to boost that one.
X fingers--- i would sell the ZO6 in a heartbeat if the RIGHT rotary car was released
10-05-2015, 03:27 PM
#205
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to meet modern day performance standards it will almost have to be a 3 rotor---OR
maybe they will settle for the moderate performance line and drop it into a hardtop mx5. If it is the 16x with direct injection----there goes the aftermarket. it will be hard to boost that one.
X fingers--- i would sell the ZO6 in a heartbeat if the RIGHT rotary car was released
maybe they will settle for the moderate performance line and drop it into a hardtop mx5. If it is the 16x with direct injection----there goes the aftermarket. it will be hard to boost that one.
X fingers--- i would sell the ZO6 in a heartbeat if the RIGHT rotary car was released
Whoa stranger. How have you been man?
10-06-2015, 08:20 AM
#206
Rockie Mountain Newbie
I would ascribe part of that to the lack of a V6 variant, something upstream. I would guess the new Skyactiv 2.5 turbo gasoline engine will be used to cover that ground though. The diesel would be interesting with it's great low end torque but the lack of horsepower would still be a disadvantage.
Paul.
Paul.
The high power versions of the Camry, Accord, Sonata, are not the ones that sell in bulk. It's all the standard engine versions that get the bulk of the sales.
Here's what's really causing Mazda's lower sales in comparison to it's mainstream competition:
Numbers of new cars listed for sale on Cars.com right now:
Mazda 6 - 11,142 - Dealers - 701
Camry - 37,970 - Dealers - 1,289
Accord - 51,702 - Dealers - 1,090
Sonata - 34,502 - Dealers - 903
Fusion - 23,317 - Dealers - 3,139
Malibu - 18,655 - Dealers - 3,064
Altima - 40,937 - Dealers - 1,126
Chrysler 200 - 26,505 - Dealers - 2,379
If you don't have enough cars built and shipped to the market, and enough dealers in the same areas that your competition does, you are never going to sell cars in the same volume that your competition does.
It's just that simple.
The Sonata outsells the Mazda 6 by nearly 4x, yet they only have 200 extra dealers across the US. How much of that is fleet sales vs actual customers? No one will ever know.
BC.
10-06-2015, 08:34 AM
#207
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BC, I tend to agree with how it's linked to production volume. Mazda has hit production capacity several times in the last few years.
Jul 3rd 2012: MAZDA:Mazda to Double Annual Production Capacity of SKYACTIV Engines to 800,000 units | News Releases
Aug 27th 2013: MAZDA:Mazda to Increase Production Capacity for SKYACTIV Engines from 800,000 to One Million Units | News Releases
One of the probably neglected factors to consider here is lower production volume but plenty of demand means that Mazda is unlikely to offer incentives as great as the competitors, but the competitors can churn out lots, overfilling dealers, thus lots of incentives show up. People look at MSRPs between the cars when comparing them subjectively like this, but the actual buyers are likely looking more at the out-the-door price, which incentives play a huge role. Mazda rarely offers more than ~$500, where as other brands can offer thousands off.
Jul 3rd 2012: MAZDA:Mazda to Double Annual Production Capacity of SKYACTIV Engines to 800,000 units | News Releases
Mazda Motor Corporation today announced it will double production capacity at its engine plant in Hiroshima. Production volume will be increased from 400,000 units to 800,000 units per year in October 2012. The plant produces SKYACTIV-D diesel engines and SKYACTIV-G gasoline engines. The capacity increase is made in response to increasing demand for cars incorporating the company's SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY*1.
HIROSHIMA, Japan—Mazda Motor Corporation today announced that it is enhancing production capacity for SKYACTIV-G gasoline engines and SKYACTIV-D diesel engines at its Hiroshima Plant. Capacity, currently 800,000 units annually, will be increased to one million units by the end of 2014. The move is made in response to increasing sales of SKYACTIV vehicles around the globe.
One of the probably neglected factors to consider here is lower production volume but plenty of demand means that Mazda is unlikely to offer incentives as great as the competitors, but the competitors can churn out lots, overfilling dealers, thus lots of incentives show up. People look at MSRPs between the cars when comparing them subjectively like this, but the actual buyers are likely looking more at the out-the-door price, which incentives play a huge role. Mazda rarely offers more than ~$500, where as other brands can offer thousands off.
10-06-2015, 08:42 AM
#208
I was not responding to the comparison to their present competition but to their past sales. This is what I responded to:
"6 : 53,224 (surprisingly still less than '03 to '08 annual volume)"
The lack of a top end version with more horsepower is part of that equation.
Paul
"6 : 53,224 (surprisingly still less than '03 to '08 annual volume)"
The lack of a top end version with more horsepower is part of that equation.
Paul
10-06-2015, 11:17 AM
#209
I agree with most of thoughts over here.
Mazda have a limited production capacity , compared with Toyota , Honda or Hyundai.
They are basically outside (or very marginal) the fleet business (also here in EU).
Basically their sales strategy is to catch single customers and with low discounts.
Mazda will be NEVER an ultra large carmaker, their long term goal is to become a sort of "japanese BMW*" (word of CEO of Mazda Motor Italy)
* but not actual BMW,now is becoming a larger carmaker (see FWD BMW's)
Mazda have a limited production capacity , compared with Toyota , Honda or Hyundai.
They are basically outside (or very marginal) the fleet business (also here in EU).
Basically their sales strategy is to catch single customers and with low discounts.
Mazda will be NEVER an ultra large carmaker, their long term goal is to become a sort of "japanese BMW*" (word of CEO of Mazda Motor Italy)
* but not actual BMW,now is becoming a larger carmaker (see FWD BMW's)
10-06-2015, 06:21 PM
#211
40th anniversary Edition
And "NotAPreppoe" when the next great RX is smack in front of your face, exciting, affordable and easy to live with, will you eat your words? It is coming ! don't count out the rotary. Mazda has not. Stay tuned for upcoming announcements , perhaps by Oct 31st.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 10-06-2015 at 06:24 PM.
10-06-2015, 06:51 PM
#212
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Jesus Christ, dude. Lighten up.
Your question was answered pages ago. Do you need to relearn how to read?
But, to answer your question, no I don't think that will happen. Not as mechanical motive power. I could see them copying the Fisker Karma style of plug-in hybrid with a rotary engine as the generator.
And yes, I'll eat my words because who the hell cares? It's a semi-anonymous Internet forum. Besides, if I'm wrong it's pretty cool. If I'm right, I'm right. I'm happy either way.
Your question was answered pages ago. Do you need to relearn how to read?
But, to answer your question, no I don't think that will happen. Not as mechanical motive power. I could see them copying the Fisker Karma style of plug-in hybrid with a rotary engine as the generator.
And yes, I'll eat my words because who the hell cares? It's a semi-anonymous Internet forum. Besides, if I'm wrong it's pretty cool. If I'm right, I'm right. I'm happy either way.
10-07-2015, 06:57 AM
#213
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Any guesses what this new sports car will be like?
Assuming it is a Rotary-powered car, will it be more GT like or serious racer?
It is hard to tell from the design that Mazda released a week ago but to me the car looks very....... "elegant". Which makes me think it will be more of a sports GT. Perhaps more F-Type like than Cayman like type of car.
Assuming it is a Rotary-powered car, will it be more GT like or serious racer?
It is hard to tell from the design that Mazda released a week ago but to me the car looks very....... "elegant". Which makes me think it will be more of a sports GT. Perhaps more F-Type like than Cayman like type of car.
10-07-2015, 10:36 AM
#214
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1: They are indeed growing. Rapidly.
2: I don't want them to become too big. That's when the fun goes out of the brand.
3: "I would rather have the 3 or 6 over any other car in their respective classes but, the ownership experience is not as good" doesn't make sense.
4: Every idea you have costs money... and lots of it. With no certainty of actually driving all those sales you want. BMW has all of what you listed, but still pretty close to Mazda in sales volume. What does that tell you?
No, the way to drive all the sales numbers up as far as you want in the US, the cars have to become very un-Mazda. They have to be either huge power numbers for cheap (which means something else is sorely lacking), or they have to be completely mundane and boring to cut costs to the point that the profits are big enough to be able to afford to give huge warranties and free maintenance, etc... That's what appeals to most of the people here unfortunately. I for one, am glad as hell that they don't. If that keeps them small, so be it. I don't need to buy all of their cars, just one (or three). If they only sold 20,000 cars a year in the US, that wouldn't bother me because I could still go buy one of them and enjoy it. I don't need everyone else to be enjoying it too. Their loss, not mine.
So how big "should" they be? And what does that actually accomplish for you?
2: I don't want them to become too big. That's when the fun goes out of the brand.
3: "I would rather have the 3 or 6 over any other car in their respective classes but, the ownership experience is not as good" doesn't make sense.
4: Every idea you have costs money... and lots of it. With no certainty of actually driving all those sales you want. BMW has all of what you listed, but still pretty close to Mazda in sales volume. What does that tell you?
No, the way to drive all the sales numbers up as far as you want in the US, the cars have to become very un-Mazda. They have to be either huge power numbers for cheap (which means something else is sorely lacking), or they have to be completely mundane and boring to cut costs to the point that the profits are big enough to be able to afford to give huge warranties and free maintenance, etc... That's what appeals to most of the people here unfortunately. I for one, am glad as hell that they don't. If that keeps them small, so be it. I don't need to buy all of their cars, just one (or three). If they only sold 20,000 cars a year in the US, that wouldn't bother me because I could still go buy one of them and enjoy it. I don't need everyone else to be enjoying it too. Their loss, not mine.
So how big "should" they be? And what does that actually accomplish for you?
10-07-2015, 10:44 AM
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I'm going to shoot some holes in your perspective there.
1: If the cars are so good, regardless of anything else, might a reason for their lower sales be simply that most people have no idea of what "is good"? Or rather, they WANT the cookie cutter experience? I think there is some truth to this. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, people suck. But also most people operate on herd mentality, following what everyone else does.
2: Have you considered that if the Mazda6 had more power it would no longer win the contests? Adding power isn't "free". You have to give up something somewhere. Handling. Price point. Engine behavior. Something. Somewhere. For example, if bumping it from 185hp to 250hp raised the price from 28,000 to 38,000 (Which isn't unreasonable or unheard of). Would it still even be competing? If it was competing, would it now lose simply because it's so much more expense? I don't have these answers, but it is never a simple case of "just adding what's missing". You give up something to get something. Every car is always a compromise. ALWAYS. No exceptions.
Edit: Yes, I agree that Mazda has areas it can improve in from a customer perspective. I don't know of any exceptions to that among all the brands. Tesla just might be the first exception. This doesn't really have it's basis in the size though. Quite the reverse. The bigger the company, generally the worse the experience. Look at Toyota and GM for some examples of how massively they have failed their customers post-purchase. Mazda has it's faults, but by comparison they are still the most pleasant to deal with.
1: If the cars are so good, regardless of anything else, might a reason for their lower sales be simply that most people have no idea of what "is good"? Or rather, they WANT the cookie cutter experience? I think there is some truth to this. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, people suck. But also most people operate on herd mentality, following what everyone else does.
2: Have you considered that if the Mazda6 had more power it would no longer win the contests? Adding power isn't "free". You have to give up something somewhere. Handling. Price point. Engine behavior. Something. Somewhere. For example, if bumping it from 185hp to 250hp raised the price from 28,000 to 38,000 (Which isn't unreasonable or unheard of). Would it still even be competing? If it was competing, would it now lose simply because it's so much more expense? I don't have these answers, but it is never a simple case of "just adding what's missing". You give up something to get something. Every car is always a compromise. ALWAYS. No exceptions.
Edit: Yes, I agree that Mazda has areas it can improve in from a customer perspective. I don't know of any exceptions to that among all the brands. Tesla just might be the first exception. This doesn't really have it's basis in the size though. Quite the reverse. The bigger the company, generally the worse the experience. Look at Toyota and GM for some examples of how massively they have failed their customers post-purchase. Mazda has it's faults, but by comparison they are still the most pleasant to deal with.
Last edited by RIWWP; 10-07-2015 at 10:49 AM.
10-07-2015, 10:47 AM
#216
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Any guesses what this new sports car will be like?
Assuming it is a Rotary-powered car, will it be more GT like or serious racer?
It is hard to tell from the design that Mazda released a week ago but to me the car looks very....... "elegant". Which makes me think it will be more of a sports GT. Perhaps more F-Type like than Cayman like type of car.
Assuming it is a Rotary-powered car, will it be more GT like or serious racer?
It is hard to tell from the design that Mazda released a week ago but to me the car looks very....... "elegant". Which makes me think it will be more of a sports GT. Perhaps more F-Type like than Cayman like type of car.
Sports car for sure. Less GT than the RX-8. More refined than the FD.
10-07-2015, 11:10 AM
#218
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I am not at all opposed to it also being a hybrid, as long as it isn't fully of battery packs, but i don't think Mazda would do that anyway. Lots of ways of classifying it as a Hybrid and getting performance / efficiency gains without crippling the raw side of what we love.
10-07-2015, 11:35 AM
#220
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I disagree that hybrids have to be lame
Etc...
Yes, there is a huge price point in those pictures, but that doesn't at all exclude the possibility of the same types of engineering and technology at lower price points.
A 1,000lb battery floor would indeed be really lame. A capacitor or flywheel energy recapture to boost power at the push of a button, or to cover the 0-20mph launch, or around town efficiency assist ... not lame at all.
Etc...
Yes, there is a huge price point in those pictures, but that doesn't at all exclude the possibility of the same types of engineering and technology at lower price points.
A 1,000lb battery floor would indeed be really lame. A capacitor or flywheel energy recapture to boost power at the push of a button, or to cover the 0-20mph launch, or around town efficiency assist ... not lame at all.
10-07-2015, 12:10 PM
#222
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I'm confident that if Mazda does a hybrid, and also labels the car as a sports car, they won't get the hybrid side wrong. Probably still decried as underpowered (it's what they do), but not because of whatever hybrid technology is used.
10-07-2015, 01:06 PM
#223
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Now concerning all this possible hybrid talk, I am NOT worried at all. The Rotary is Mazda's Jewel crown (like the MX5) and am confident they are not going to mess it up. Man wouldn't that be something... a hybrid rotary car w similar layout as other hybrid monsters like the 918 Spyder and McLaren P1 or BMW i8.
i wish it will be real. 
