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Old 10-11-2017, 09:21 AM   #1626
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#keepdreaminrotards
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Old 10-11-2017, 01:19 PM   #1627
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That 4 door "vision concept" is a RWD Mazda 6. Nowhere does it say RX because it's not one. Journalists and car enthusiasts are all freaking out because they can't read.
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:35 PM   #1628
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#keepdreaminrotards
In a way, Mazda themself is a rotard as well.

Realistically, I'd just be really patient. Mazda is not a big company, so if they do come out with a rotary, it won't be a while until they make it better and they have shareholders' permission to go ahead.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:57 PM   #1629
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#keepdreaminrotards
Are you saying keep dream in rotards? I like your positive attitude. #Justbuilditmazda
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:26 PM   #1630
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RX-9/RX-Vision

I haven't read through all the posts (maybe Mazda has a way to gather feedback for improvements and marketability). Has anyone known of a working duct work system that would keep the car grounded better in the undercarriage that works with flaps to both cool the brake rotors and aid in steering? A design like that could also help with the flat bumpers and raised rear to provide a continuous eyeline as well. Also, it would be fitting and an improvement if night vision type headlights and glass was used like the patents GM and Audi hold.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:37 PM   #1631
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:45 PM   #1632
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#justbuilditmazda
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:21 PM   #1633
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I haven't read through all the posts (maybe Mazda has a way to gather feedback for improvements and marketability). Has anyone known of a working duct work system that would keep the car grounded better in the undercarriage that works with flaps to both cool the brake rotors and aid in steering? A design like that could also help with the flat bumpers and raised rear to provide a continuous eyeline as well. Also, it would be fitting and an improvement if night vision type headlights and glass was used like the patents GM and Audi hold.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:59 PM   #1634
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#justbuilditmazda
make sure to use #JustBuilditMazda on your FaceInstaTwit. thanks

Last edited by zoom44; 10-13-2017 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:51 AM   #1635
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make sure to use #JustBuilditMazda on your FaceInstaTwit. thanks
Oooh my bad , will do .

Last edited by zoom44; 10-13-2017 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:04 AM   #1636
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Oh no, NOT a 4 DOOR AGAIN!....

Is this a great Idea??
Yes, the RX-8 had it's market as a 4 door RE with 'concealed' freestyle doors, BUT can or could Mazda repeat this limited success again..??

As I have said before Mazda blew a great marketing and selling opportunity, the 4 door RX-8 and only IF they had the ***** a Miata Rotary, Both cars had the same suspension design/platform.
A rotary Miata would have been the sweetest thing ever!, and would have cost little in design and tooling.

Move on a Decade...++

This 4 Door Vision and a 2 Door Vision, could we see both made in production?

All I know is the ND Miata/MX-5 does not have the correct suspension build to take an engine/chassis with more power, it is not engineered for anymore than about 185HP, every ND part is very light weight and 4 nut wheel lugs/bearing studs, etc, etc.

So is the Vision all new or off a ND Miata/MX-5 platform, with the engineering beefed up/strengthened for a much higher HP, weight and Speed??

I say yes, and I say build both..
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:06 AM   #1637
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And now this BS speculation from AN.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...ngine-electric

MINE, Japan -- Mazda Motor Corp. is moving closer to resurrecting its trademark rotary engine and it could debut in the United States as soon as 2019.

But don't expect a performance engine sending power straight to the wheels, like in the sporty RX-7 and RX-8 of yore. The next iteration is heading toward an upcoming electric vehicle.

Meanwhile, Hitomi confirmed that Mazda's engineers are developing a bigger rotary engine that might someday power a sports car. The biggest hurdle has not been the technology, he said, but making the business case for another performance entry, on top of the MX-5 Miata already playing that role.

MIGHT SOMEDAY!!
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:18 AM   #1638
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...MIATA Hurdle!!!

Mazda YOU either take/make the gamble or YOU do not..

It really is SIMPLE, build the dam RX-Vision with a 2 Door RE ONLY, 16X will do.

IF the price is right YOU will sell more than the RX-8 and as many as the RX-7 (1 and 2) provided Engine is reliable and economy is OK.
We do not want a hybrid..

You are now saying it is not a technical question but one of demand, a Miata IS NOT a higher powered 'Sports Car'.

Seriously there will NEVER be a better time to make a 2 door RE Vision than NOW, all the 'RE Enthusiast" are getting older (even dead), young millennials are not interested in buying new cars, full stop.

SO WHO ARE YOU SELLING THIS CAR TO?
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:25 AM   #1639
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A rotary Miata would have been the sweetest thing ever!, and would have cost little millions and millions of USD in design and tooling and emissions certifications and crash testing.
It would have been awesome, but FTFY.

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MIGHT SOMEDAY!!
And I might someday bang Gal Gadot and Michelle Monaghan as the same time...

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IF the price is right YOU will sell more than the RX-8 and as many as the RX-7 (1 and 2) provided Engine is reliable and economy is OK.
We do not want a hybrid..
I don't think this is the case. Even if it had 100 more horsepower and was $1000 cheap than the Toyobaru twins, Mazda would not be able to sell more than the RX-8. No chance.
99.999% of auto buyers have zero interest in a two-seat sports car, no matter how pretty, fast, or cheap. And that's probably still overstating the market.
The well-heeled (and wannabe well-heeled) buyers that are interested aren't going to soil their Rolex lifestyles with a <looks down nose at the plebes> "MAZDA".

The microscopic percentage of us who want and would pay a lot for a real rotary sports car for what it can do aren't going to buy enough of them to keep the lights on in Hiroshima. That reality is the whole reason the RX-8 had 4 doors and 4 seats in an attempt to broaden the appeal.

Unfortunately broadening the appeal with an initially half-baked engine further damaged the rotary's reputation. Whenever I meet people interested in my car, the first thing they ask me is "Isn't the engine unreliable?" Sheesh, just kick me in the *****. It will hurt less.

That's all the masses (and the "media") will remember if there is another "Mazda rotary."

The only way we'll ever see a Mazda rotary engine again, is in a hybrid. Either as the range extender or as a parallel hybrid. The unpleasant realities of safety over-regulation, CAFE, and various country's CO2 limits make anything else nearly impossible.
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:37 PM   #1640
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/\, Wrong people buy on LOOKS too, the RX-8 is a little strange to those who do not love it.

The RX-Vision is not a normal looking 2 door, it is probably the best EVER looking 2 ever out of Japan and designed by the same guy who penned the 8.

Everywhere the Vision went all loved it, and won every design award of that year.

IF Mazda had the ***** to make it it will sell well with or without a RE.
But as usual actual production model will be stuffed up by them or it wont happen.

I am really disappointed in Mazda that they have and are not catering for any performance models, only the 2.0 Miata.

They have a 2.5T that they invested a lot in and ONLY offering it in a CX-9, is again just dumb.

But, again perhaps they are looking for corporate welfare with Toyota to build a new plant in US, starting price is $1 bil USD. Your tax dollars, no wonder the world is in massive debt... Welfare Dollar crazy.
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Old 10-15-2017, 03:17 AM   #1641
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[QUOTE
They have a 2.5T that they invested a lot in and ONLY offering it in a CX-9, is again just dumb.
[/QUOTE]

This....THIS!!!!

FFS if they just used better suspension bigger brakes and a cx-5 AWD they could make a speed 3/6 for a limited run 250-500 cars I'd buy one.Probably not cost effective but would just be nice

also a limited run miata with the same engine pretty sure they'd sale very well!

But atm the moment the closest thing is to just swap an REW into an a RX8 and call it a day

If there isn't anything tangible by 2019 it probably will not happen
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Old 10-15-2017, 05:11 AM   #1642
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
/\, Wrong people buy on LOOKS too, the RX-8 is a little strange to those who do not love it.

The RX-Vision is not a normal looking 2 door, it is probably the best EVER looking 2 ever out of Japan and designed by the same guy who penned the 8.

Everywhere the Vision went all loved it, and won every design award of that year.

IF Mazda had the ***** to make it it will sell well with or without a RE.
But as usual actual production model will be stuffed up by them or it wont happen.

I am really disappointed in Mazda that they have and are not catering for any performance models, only the 2.0 Miata.

They have a 2.5T that they invested a lot in and ONLY offering it in a CX-9, is again just dumb.

But, again perhaps they are looking for corporate welfare with Toyota to build a new plant in US, starting price is $1 bil USD. Your tax dollars, no wonder the world is in massive debt... Welfare Dollar crazy.

i basically agree with you Ashley, but i'm waiting to see the strategy behind the agreement with Toyota and Denso.

there are rumors of a move upscale for Mazda in global market positioning, here in EU are investing in more appealing dealership(even in my city are building a new shop).

In racing they have made a good move signing with a team like Joest
, Joest Racing are people that want to contend victory at Le Mans in few years.


Also RE o not RE production is strictly linked to that (move upmarket) IMHO
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:43 AM   #1643
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They have a 2.5T that they invested a lot in and ONLY offering it in a CX-9, is again just dumb.
Actually, if you think about it, that engine is already obsolete with the design of the new SkyActiv-X engine, with the supercharger and SPCCI. Once they make a 2.5 L version of it, why even bother having the SkyActiv-G Turbo version for the CX-9 anymore?
The SkyActiv-X would be a MUCH better fit for the type of driving dynamics purchasers are looking for in that segment.

BC.
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:14 AM   #1644
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If they can make the HCCI or SCCI engine work - great. I'd rather have a rotary RX-9.

Just build a 350+ Nm torque (275 ft-lbs) engine with requisite power # and I'll buy
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Old 10-15-2017, 01:12 PM   #1645
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I think a lot of people still like how RX-8 looks. Most of the people who don't are probably RX-7 people, which is understandable, but RX-8 wouldn't even have existed if they didn't design it to have 4 doors.

S1 and S2 non-R3 can be a bit too round to me, but it's easy enough to remedy with some subtle body mods.

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Actually, if you think about it, that engine is already obsolete with the design of the new SkyActiv-X engine, with the supercharger and SPCCI. Once they make a 2.5 L version of it, why even bother having the SkyActiv-G Turbo version for the CX-9 anymore?
The SkyActiv-X would be a MUCH better fit for the type of driving dynamics purchasers are looking for in that segment.

BC.
A few people at the Accord forum said they would have considered 6 if Mazda offer the 2.5T as an option, so Mazda could get some people over by doing that. New Camry and Accord both look meh, still nowhere as good as the 6.

As for the Skyactiv-X, there is still a lot of uncertainties. Mazda didn't really go in details about how they would have achieved HCCI, and some people were actually questioning if they can pull it off.
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Old 10-15-2017, 03:47 PM   #1646
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More speculation, from TAC...

Mazda's Rotary Engine Returns for 2019 ? Just Not How You Had Hoped
Mazda’s Rotary Engine Returns for 2019 — Just Not How You Had Hoped

A few 'quotes' in there tells me a RE ONLY Mazda is just about dead in the water.

Now a Mazda guy says they "Don't want another sports car if it will cannibalize the Miata sales"...FFS!, I give up, their communications department head needs the boot the Vision stuff is just BS, another display car that has no engine, lets keep the stock investors happy with something...

2019!, that is 7 years, 8 for USA where there has been NO Rotary Engine powered car, like that is an eternity, might as well say a decade..

Just who are all these Rotary Enthusiast who will buy one come 2020?..
As I said before Z and particularly Millennials are not buying or using cars.
The rest of the market is going SUV/Pickup, a micro percentage is electric/ or hybrid.

Mazda's 'RE Enthusiast' market is getting old and passing on.
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Old 10-15-2017, 05:52 PM   #1647
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Whatever happens, I assume Mazda won't mess with the DNA of the MX-5, keeping it as the very model of a pure, affordable, lightweight, 4-cylinder, fun-to-drive, RWD sports car. Yeah, it would be cool if it could somehow be even lighter. But it is, quite simply, the most popular sports car ever made. And for good reason.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:39 PM   #1648
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I'd buy a new one if it had the FD3S horsepower and torque. Put me on the list.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:21 AM   #1649
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^FD3S HP and TQ are nothing in today's world
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:27 AM   #1650
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Quote:
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More speculation, from TAC...

Mazda's Rotary Engine Returns for 2019 ? Just Not How You Had Hoped
Mazdas Rotary Engine Returns for 2019 Just Not How You Had Hoped

A few 'quotes' in there tells me a RE ONLY Mazda is just about dead in the water.

Now a Mazda guy says they "Don't want another sports car if it will cannibalize the Miata sales"...FFS!, I give up, their communications department head needs the boot the Vision stuff is just BS, another display car that has no engine, lets keep the stock investors happy with something...

2019!, that is 7 years, 8 for USA where there has been NO Rotary Engine powered car, like that is an eternity, might as well say a decade..

Just who are all these Rotary Enthusiast who will buy one come 2020?..
As I said before Z and particularly Millennials are not buying or using cars.
The rest of the market is going SUV/Pickup, a micro percentage is electric/ or hybrid.

Mazda's 'RE Enthusiast' market is getting old and passing on.
The original AN article referenced:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...ngine-electric

Hitomi actually never said anything directly about cannibalizing MX-5 sales. That was commentary from Posky @ TTAC. While it's probably true to a certain degree, I think the bigger issue is just how much profit they can make off of what is a shrinking niche of a segment.

The MX-5 is reasonably affordable and that gives it a greater appeal to a larger marker. If they can't bring the next RX to market with a price tag that will appeal to enough people, they'll lose money. That's a much bigger issue for a (relatively) small company like Mazda than it is for, say, VAG or ToMoCo (who can afford to lose crap tons of money on their halo/engineer-wet-dream cars).

We enthusiasts like to think we have a lot of money to throw around as a segment but I don't think that's anywhere near true. The fact is that few new sports cars are coming to market from non-luxury manufacturers.
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