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The new 0W8 weights are in!
....and 0W16 has been Toyota Japan spec for the last eighteen years.
Synthetics with very low friction and very low HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity. Honda
The latest Shell 'gas-to-liquid' synthetics have been below 'zero' for years, but there is no such thing as a 'minus' rated oil. Mobil
Once you get into the technical specs you'll find that the '0' isn't even zero, it's a minus!
To avoid the confusion of "-15W10" the SAE decided to stop at zero, and let the specs themselves show the difference. Specs
If we get technical, the "8" and the "16" are not viscosities either, they just signify the'class' of oil, not it's weight. Motul
This oil would probably be sufficient for most Toyota drivers since any newer Toyota that's not an 86 or Zupr4 move about as fast as how fast their drivers can walk.
For people who rev to 9k RPM often? Probably not. 5W-20 is okay in my climate and use, but not willing to go below that.
I bet the 0W8 and 0W18 oils are sufficient for the engines that they were designed - especially in high pressure, low tolerance applications. A 2002 K24 engine (Honda) and 13B-MSP were not designed for those lighter weights.
This oil would probably be sufficient for most Toyota drivers since any newer Toyota that's not an 86 or Zupr4 move about as fast as how fast their drivers can walk.
For people who rev to 9k RPM often? Probably not. 5W-20 is okay in my climate and use, but not willing to go below that.
[He thinks, just before any given Camry walks all over his 8 from the stop light.]
[He thinks, just before any given Camry walks all over his 8 from the stop light.]
Most family car engines are a bit more focused on having more low-end torque versus high-end power, so not surprising. This is probably more true with hybrid models.
Sure a V6 Camry is faster than an 8, but they are not common(I read the take rate for V6 Camry is under 10%), and so what if it beats me in a straight-line? A 3.5 L engine is faster than a 1.3 L engine? Wow, who would have thought?
Interesting that those interviewed repeated the wear concern then deflected right to IMPROVED FUEL ECONOMY (shiny coin). That's great the the 0W part reduced start up wear and improved starting but lubrication at temperature needs SAE 20-40 at high wear points. Now it makes sense - break in oils that honda (in the Fit that I'm very familiar with) was using are likely 0W16 or 0W8 and that's why they wanted users to run it until the 'puter said to change the oil.
"Those were concerns with having such a low viscosity oil, but with more than 15 years of background in 0W-16 oil, we are able to address those issues and create a benefit of increasing fuel efficiency, when compared to 0W-20 oil."
Good luck getting to 54.5 mpg without those batteries and the infrastructure. Imagine how much more expensive home electricity is going to be when the consumption goes way up and new plants are not being built (and nuclear - the clear choice for efficiency - is being demoted and the Westinghouse technology got too cumbersome and costly).
"“The main driving force is certainly fuel economy,” says Kristin Kowolik, consumer product specialist and member of the Chevron Lubricants Product Life Cycle Management Team. “The current CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standard for average required fuel economy is 34.9 mpg. In 2016, this requirement will go up to 37.8 mpg.”
By 2025, all vehicles and light-duty trucks sold in the United States will have to post 54.5 mpg of fuel efficiency, a near doubling of today’s approved mileage standard. They will also have to produce significantly lower emissions as well.
Interesting that those interviewed repeated the wear concern then deflected right to IMPROVED FUEL ECONOMY (shiny coin). That's great the the 0W part reduced start up wear and improved starting but lubrication at temperature needs SAE 20-40 at high wear points. Now it makes sense - break in oils that honda (in the Fit that I'm very familiar with) was using are likely 0W16 or 0W8 and that's why they wanted users to run it until the 'puter said to change the oil.
"Those were concerns with having such a low viscosity oil, but with more than 15 years of background in 0W-16 oil, we are able to address those issues and create a benefit of increasing fuel efficiency, when compared to 0W-20 oil."
Did you miss these parts?
There are several concerns [about 0W-16 oils] due to their lower viscosity, like increased wear, increased oil consumption and lower oil pressure. But our long history [with 0W-16] has addressed these concerns.
Miyamoto: [Some may be worried that] lowering viscosity might cause increased wear or a pressure issue. Takahashi: Those were concerns with having such a low viscosity oil, but with more than 15 years of background in 0W-16 oil, we are able to address those issues and create a benefit of increasing fuel efficiency, when compared to 0W-20 oil.
Last edited by NotAPreppie; 01-23-2019 at 09:30 AM.
I'm a data guy - they did talk that they addressed wear, but never quoted any numbers on the worst areas (of a piston engine). They did quote 2% (data!) reduction in fuel economy. Sooo... I'll wait to use 0W8 or 0W16 in cars designed for this application and instead use a high 0WXX grade as specified on the ex-US owners manual. My winter beater Honda K24 engine is spec'd out for 5W30 in all countries except the US where [the EPA wants us to use] 0W20 and 5W20 are recommended.
Last edited by wannawankel; 01-23-2019 at 12:40 PM.
Reason: speeling errerz
I'm a data guy - they did talk that they addressed wear, but never quoted any numbers on the worst areas (of a piston engine). They did quote 2% (data!) reduction in fuel economy. Sooo... I'll wait to use 0W8 or 0W16 in cars designed for this application and instead use a high 0WXX grade as specified on the ex-US owners manual. My winter beater Honda K24 engine is spec'd out for 5W30 in all countries except the US where [the EPA wants us to use] 0W20 and 5W20 are recommended.
I had a J35 Accord and used 5W-20 without any issues. Go on Accord forums and there are a few 7th Gen Accord owners running 5W-20 and IIRC one of them is getting close to or already over 500k miles. Not joking. He just changes his oil on time when the Maintenance Minder tells him to.
You are overthinking this. On an 8, I can see people messing around with oil weight with the way they tend to be driven(high load and RPM, sometimes even sustained). An Accord? What do you do with it, tracking? You are just daily driving it. Why not squeeze a bit more gas mileage out of it without damaging anything?
Remember that these manufacturers have a name to keep. If 0W-20 would cause massive failures in normal uses, they wouldn't use it.
I think Europeans use a thicker oil because their driving style. They tend to do more urban driving with a lot of shorter trips. Also remember that before 9th Gen, Accords are different depending on the region. European Accords were sold here as Acura TSX, and Accords here were sold in Asia as Honda Inspire.
Last edited by UnknownJinX; 01-23-2019 at 12:49 PM.
I'm a data guy - they did talk that they addressed wear, but never quoted any numbers on the worst areas (of a piston engine). They did quote 2% (data!) reduction in fuel economy. Sooo... I'll wait to use 0W8 or 0W16 in cars designed for this application and instead use a high 0WXX grade as specified on the ex-US owners manual. My winter beater Honda K24 engine is spec'd out for 5W30 in all countries except the US where [the EPA wants us to use] 0W20 and 5W20 are recommended.
It's a printed interview, not an article in the Journal of Tribology or SAE International Journal of Fuels and Lubricants. The article is literally has the phrase "the skinny" in it.
Also, I have no idea what you're trying to say in the bolded section.
Last, to counter your "5W30 in all countries except the US", I'm told 0w-16 has been common in Japan for years.
Last edited by NotAPreppie; 01-23-2019 at 04:05 PM.
01-21-2019, 05:58 PM
