Mazda DIESEL Skyactiv Engine Oil Level Issues...Help here..
 

I thought it necessary to inform all our North American members and prospective Mazda DIESEL Engine buyers or current Mazda CX-5 Diesel owners about reported Diesel Engine Oil "overfilling" or High Engine Oil Levels or Dash Warning Lights.

In 2013 MNAO will launch the same all new MAZDA Skyactiv Diesel Engines in America for the first time, the all new Skyactiv Clean Diesels Engines are a 4 cylinder 2.2 Litre and twin turbocharged.

Mazda will also race (motor-sport) the all new Mazda 6 Diesel in Daytona USA, Le-Mans. etc.

These SA Diesel Engines have been available in Japan, Europe and Australia since the launch of the CX-5 in early 2012, and the all new Mazda 6 from December, 2012 in Japan and Australia.

PLEASE, Do NOT purchase ANY Mazda Diesel Engine car 'if' you only do short distance driving of less than 20 minutes...
Mazda's revolutionary Skyactiv Diesel Engines use a self cleaning or renewal DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) which burns off diesel particulates rather than storing in a replaceable DP Filter or urea add like many other makes.

The Mazda DPF system requires a hot engine (@ full operating temperature) and is also clean cycle controlled by cars ECU or PCM.

Fuel Wash can also occur and give a high Oil Level readings as engines are not getting hot enough (with less than 20 minutes driving or use) and can in some cases add unburnt Diesel Fuel with Engines Oil resulting in a higher Oil Level on Dip Stick and Dash Warning Light or CEL.

ALL Mazda Skyactiv Diesel Engine are what is called a CLEAN DIESEL ENGINE.

IF you drive less than 20 minutes from turnkey each time, then re-think a purchase of a Diesel Engine Mazda, go for their brilliant Skyactiv Gasoline (Petrol) Engines, which are equally high tech and revolutionary.

THE MAIN CX-5 Diesel OWNER ISSUE - COMPLAINT..

Many European and Australian CX-5 DIESEL Owners have been complaining to their Mazda Dealers about high engine (rising) oil levels.

Almost all of these issues are because the customer is not reading the Dip Stick correctly..See below the ''Attached Files'' Mazda TSB (Technical Service Bulletin).

The Dip Stick 'x' mark is not where the level should be for normal use, the 'x' mark is on your dip stick's FACE is to show you which SIDE of the Dip Stick should be read from, IF your Oil Level reaches the X mark then Engine Oil should be renewed..

The highest DOT mark punched into the DS is where the correct FULL Engine Oil Level should be.

However, as this TSB say, there is a correct way to also Insert the DS and to Remove DS without scraping the Dip Stick on the tubes walls which collects more engine oil and gives a false reading..
..also 'when' oil should be checked after engine turn off and a flat ground surface level of the car when checking Oil Level is an issue.

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If you are not a member of the RX8club.com, then please join up first and then subscribe to this thread (see top right of this thread "THREAD TOOLS" to subscribe AFTER you Join up) and receive any email updates on this subject.

I will endeavour to post new information about the CX-5 and Mazda 6 DIESEL Engine 'issues' if and when they occur.

Unfortunately many new cars are sold to people that do not actually suit their driving/owner habits, or driving use..
Frankly, the old school views of Diesel Engine use has not changed that much, as in, ALL Diesel Engined cars are brilliant for constant use, long drive cycles. ..

Todays clean Diesels (Mazda) are far superior emission and economy wise, they are not the dirty, smelly, rattly and noisy engines like the old local truck or bus...they are very desirable with loads of torque and longevity.
DIESELs are not for short distant use, never have been.

Resetting "Fuel In Oil" Dash Warning Lamp
 

For the @ home guys who will want to change their Diesel Engine Oil and Oil Filters themselves, here is how to re-set their dashboard "Fuel In Oil" Warning Lamp...
...yes, you can do it via the 'Pedal Reset Method'.

Engine oil data reset and procedures on Mazda vehicles with diesel engines, after engine oil /filter replacement.

Pedal method (example Mazda2 Diesel)

1. Switch the ignition ON (engine off).

2. Depress the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal simultaneously and hold for approx. 20 s.
Note • The fuel in oil warning light flashes after approx. 15 s and turns off when the procedure is successfully completed.

3. Verify that the fuel in oil warning light flashes and then turns off.

4. Release the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal.

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The soon to be released all new GJ Mazda 6 Diesel will use the same Pedal's method (procedure) to re-set, after Engine Oil and or Filter renewal.

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Service Caution for new GJ Mazda 6 EUROPE ONLY
 

I decided to add this Mazda Europe Service Caution for the all new Mazda 6 coming to the US next month.(2013)..

It is about Oil Specifics* and the need to reset PCM after Oil Change, as I pointed out above post....also Transmission Oils...Tire Pressure Monitoring,... i-eloop, etc.

For Diesel Engine..
In order to prevent engine damage by diluted oil, PCM always monitors oil dilution ratio and driving condition.
It is necessary to reset the engine oil data of PCM by M-MDS (or Pedals) when engine oil is replaced.

There is also a software update for CX-5 Diesel PCM's, only for the early produced CX-5 Diesels.
So I recommend Australian and European CX-5 diesel owners to make sure you have had latest IDS software update for your cars PCM...see your Mazda Dealer..

Sorry I don't have the PCM software bulletin handy at the moment.

* Please note, Oil type/viscosity and brand recommended for North American Mazda SA Diesel Engines has yet to be finalized or released.

Official Mazda response and fix.
 

Extract..

Owners of Mazda’s CX-5 diesel to be offered engine software update and a new dipstick to solve oil overfilling issue.

Mazda Australia has come up with a solution for the oil overfilling problem that has afflicted some versions of its CX-5 turbo-diesel.

As previously reported, Mazda had recommended that diesel CX-5 owners regularly check their oil levels, following up to 200 reports of oil "dilution" due to diesel fuel leaking into the oil sump after the vehicle was driven for short periods regularly.

The fix involves a replacement dipstick and a software change that modifies the operation of the diesel particulate filter, which was found to be the cause of the problem. Mazda said owners of affected vehicles will be advised of the remedy.

“We're able to confirm that the fix to rectify CX-5 models affected by oil dilution issues is now available,” Mazda Australia Public Relations Manager Steve Maciver told motoring.com.au.

“Along with a simple software update to modify the operation of the diesel particulate filter, a revised dipstick will also be fitted and the first supplies of these have now come into the country.

“Mazda has already begun contacting owners of affected vehicles to arrange to have the fix applied under normal warranty provisions,” said Mr Maciver.

The oil dilution issue was caused by diesel fuel moving into the diesel CX-5’s oil sump in some vehicles that regularly undertook short trips.

Brief running periods were found to prevent the diesel particulate filter from heating up and operating correctly, causing it to clog with soot prematurely.

To stop the filter clogging with soot, diesel fuel is discharged during the exhaust stroke of the engine to raise heat levels faster, but some fuel finds its way into the sump, where it combines with the oil and increases the level in the engine.

Mazda says the problem does not affect its brand-new Mazda6 sedan and wagon, which went on sale in December with the same 2.2-litre diesel engine.

But the world ends tomorrow so i dont really see this as that big of an issue

as European customer, knowing a lot of diesel drivers (using car of EVERY carmaker), using myself diesel powered Car/LCV equipped with DPF....

here it is my 2 cents:

DON'T BUY ANY DIESEL-POWERED CAR if you dont' have the right pattern of use (wich ash8 have correctly explained) of the car : expressway-freeway and long distance trip.... mainly out of urban courses...

there are a lot of problems in urban and short courses with EVERY MANUFACTURER cars.

i'm seriously considering a 6 , but only with gas engine. NO DIESEL FOR ME.

and God know how expensive is gasoline here in EU.

Please note, I have added some recent TSB's which are not Diesel specific, but also Gasoline Mazda 6 (GJ) ...most will not apply to US made Mazda 6's as in production processes will have resolved most.

Just another point....

This thread is for "TECHNICAL DISCUSSION" to help - understand.

It is not a hate thread on the brand....irrelevant posts will be removed.

ALL car makers have issues with new product, go and have a look at Toyota's issues with their 86 (Scion Forums).

I was considering getting my wife a CX-5 diesel when they come out here in the US.

I couldn't find any info on the Skyactive diesel for the US market yet so I figured they would be released for the 2014 model year.

I have a hard enough time getting her to make sure she drives the 8 for at least 20 mins per drive cycle so the diesel may not be a good option. The weekend wouldn't be problem when doing family outings but her daily commute is only about 4 miles each way.

Why not purchase the CX-5 2.5l Gasoline when it comes to the US in early 2013?..

A Diesel (or Rotary) are not, repeat not for short distance driving.

If we go gas, we may go with the CX-9. The diesel was the only reason for going with the CX-5.

I currently own a CX-5 GTD which has had 6 oil changes (apart from the 2 regular services) in the 20,000 kms i've covered & majority of my trips are over 50kms.

The so called "fix" has been applied to my car.. a new dipstick has been installed as part of the fix on which the X mark has been raised by 12mm.

Here is an image comparison: http://goo.gl/lme2d

OLD DIPSTICK
Code: SH01 10 450A
Low Mark: 8-9mm
Full Mark: 29-30mm
X Mark: 43mm
Twist: 60mm

NEW DIPSTICK
Code: SH01 10 450B
Low Mark: 8-9mm
Full Mark: 29-30mm
X Mark: 55mm (mark is fainter than before)
Twist: 71mm

Overall length of the dipsticks & location of low & full marks seems to be same. The X mark has definitely been raised by 12mm which raises a very serious question - If Mazda was so confident that their PCM update will fix the issue, then what was the need of raising the X mark?

The Mazda service technician also advised that the new instructions with the dipstick state that less oil needs to be filled at the time of service.

Only time will tell if the PCM “update” actually fixes anything, but I’ve lost any faith that I had in Mazda after all this !

I thought the purpose of the X was to make sure you looked at the correct side and had nothing to do with level. If so, the X being higher or lower has no significance.

I hope you get satisfaction with your new Mazda. I trust it will work out.

Paul.

X is still on the same side & even fainter than before.. so it's even harder to look for.

Not only have they raised the "x" mark to allow more dilution (more than double than what the original dipstick allowed) but they fill lesser oil which means that the amount of dilution they now allow is significantly higher.

EDIT: Just read your post again.. "X" is the overfill mark. If the oil reaches this level, then it needs to be replaced. This is the pamplet Mazda sent us one month after we got the delivery of the car http://goo.gl/sg1FW

You are correct about the X level sir.

Paul.

BaronX :)

Many thanks for your detailed information and help, it is very much appreciated, I also hope you do not mind but I have saved your JPEG images inside your posts here so we have a copy on our servers.

While I totally understand your frustration with Mazda and your great CX-5, please do not lose hope.
While Mazda are not prefect as a car company, they do stand by their products.

Paul (Mazmart) has been a long term Mazda enthusiast and even makes a living out of his very respectable Mazda Parts supply business and is also highly regarded by Mazda in the USA and Japan.
As for me I am also a long term Mazda 'hack and owner', both in Mazda Parts and Service starting back in the mid 1970's...
We want to see SkyActiv Diesels work in the USA too.

Anyway getting back to your CX-5...

How long ago did you have this latest fix done?

I would definitely have faith in the Mazda Japan PCM firmware update, just because a little less oil is now added in Oil Pan, or the fact that the 'x' danger level mark has been raised, I am positive Mazda knows what they are doing.

I would imagine you have also done your homework on latest Diesel Engines with regenerative DP filters, and also the rising Oil Level issue on other brands, not new or Mazda exclusive.

Anyway, I have my own views as to what Mazda has done to the CX-5 firmware, but at this stage I believe it is unwise to publicise my thoughts just now, I would prefer that some time is given to see how this fix goes in the field.

Thank you again..and please keep us updated.

Hi Ash,

As a customer, I had high hopes when I bought the car. But during this whole issue, there’s been a complete failure on Mazda’s behalf to communicate with the affected customers.

Other than comments made to journalists nothing official (to my knowledge) has ever been claimed from Mazda Australia or Mazda anywhere else. This has been the story so far for the past 8 months, hence why many customers like me are annoyed from going back to the dealership every month to get the oil changed.

You guys most definitely know more about Mazda & their tech and I sincerely hope that Mazda fixes this issue permanently rather than just hiding it. Now as you said, we just have to wait and see if the update fixes anything..

:)..

I have my own theory when buying a brand new car, always leave it to the next generation or major update as most of the 'issues' have been sorted....every car maker has them.

The Japanese are just better at investigating and rectifying.

I suggest you find a good car club forum, and or check around where you can find a forum with TSB's, So you can keep up to date with the changes to your VIN model.

There have been quite a number already for the CX-5, but no more than any other all new product.

As I said, Mazda will not walk away from you, don't demand with an angry persona at a Dealer or else they will just be difficult, it is good to have a friendly service adviser or manager....keep it calm :)..

As I said, I will try and keep on top with what Mazda updates on the Diesel..

So you did not answer my question, how long ago did you have the PCM update done at your Mazda Dealer?

Good luck..M8

Thanks Ash.. Ya I've made sure I've kept my calm with my dealer.. been there so many times that they all know my name & car rego.

Sorry.. missed on that.. the PCM update was applied before the Christmas break and the new dipstick was put in yesterday.

Any updates to report on the fix?

Oil level issue question from Europe
 

Hi all. I find your forum and this website very informative. I contact you from Italy. I asked about all these issues with oil level local dealer and seems they know nothing about that. Is it possible that for some reason this doesn't concern European versions, or rather dealers here are not aware or that mazda cx-5 shipped at the end of 2012 had been already fixed? Any comment would be much appreciated. Don't know if I should be checking the oil level. This is my first diesel experience.

Not sure why we even really have a support page for the skyactiv engine since this is an RX8 forum ... seems pointless to attract people looking for help when 99% of the community doesn't deal with these engines on a daily basis.


anyway, you may be better pressed at finding some help here: Mazda CX-5 Forum

Yes, you should ALWAYS check your oil level, especially when your car is brand new.

If you don't check your oil level on a brand new vehicle, what if it turns out that there was a defect with your engine that eats a full quart of oil in 250 miles? In 1000 miles, you're nearly out of oil, and you have just destroyed it.

Check your engine oil.
Always check your engine oil.
But check it much more often during the first couple thousand miles that you put on it. Its safer that way.

BC.

Paimon,

This has been discussed by the forum members previously.
We, as the whole community, like having these bits of info provided and shared.
Some of us have bought other Mazda vehicles, or replaced our RX-8's with other Mazda vehicles, and we appreciate everything that Ash does as a member of the Mazda family to keep us informed.

Honestly, this is one of the best Mazda forums out there, and having this information here helps not only the members of our community who have expanded their portfolio of Mazda products past the RX-8, but it also brings in new Mazda owners who might be looking for help on a SkyActiv platform that normally wouldn't come here, because they see the type of help they get from our friends at Mazda, like Ash.

So, even though you can't see a use for these type of posts here, quite a few others of us can. And we appreciate it, greatly.

BC.

The thread stays. That's what the General Automotive forum is for. I would believe that this information is getting out to the various relevant car platform forums too.

Healthy for RX8club, healthy for new Mazda owners, which in turn may help provide the revenue for more rotaries in the future. Seems like a big Mazda love circle to me :grouphug:.

Paul.

no love for Honda Fit owners :FIREdevil:greenchai:icon16:

https://www.rx8club.com/lounge-4/maz...-brand-244215/

direct link to video

http://www.theonion.com/articles/man...1761/?ref=auto

Hello all.

Brief history - I'm in the US and I've been looking at new cars for almost a year now. Looking for a compact or maybe mid-size car and have driven most of the compact options already. Was really impressed with the VW Golf TDI because of how the city driving experience was with the low RPM torque. Decided the Golf TDI was too pricey (sticker of $28k+) and the risk of HPFP failures with VW TDIs was too much, so I looked for other diesel options and found exactly zero. The first to come available will be the Cruze TD, but I was not impressed with the $26k starting price point for a car that starts at $16k in base trim with a gasser. I then found the Mazda 6 was coming with the Skyactiv-D, and while I wasn't really looking to have a mid-size car, it looked great and the better driving feel of the diesel might be worth up-sizing for.

So I've been following developments on this car for the last couple months, again playing the long waiting game, only to tonight find reference to this thread warning about short distance driving with diesels. I drive about 5,000 miles a year at most, so the diesel really is about the driving feel, not the fuel economy for me. I equate it to going for a V6 instead of settling for a I4, but with double or more fuel economy (with a diesel vs V6). Compact cars with V6s are almost unheard of now, so diesel is really the only option if I'd rather not settle for the I4.

I typically take 3 long trips a year, 2 which are about 450 miles round trip and one that is about 900 miles round trip, so the rest of my miles are in short 5-10 minute segments most of the time. According to this thread, I should not buy any diesel, not only Skyactiv-D diesels, which is disappointing. My question is, if I were to do a longer (30-60) minute drive once a week would this be enough to keep me in good shape, or will I still have oil and particulate (not being burned up) problems?

And if that isn't good enough, I'm not sure what my next car can be. Since seeing this thread I did some searching about this topic for normal gas cars and it is also suggested not to drive short distances, but I suspect the severity is less than you mentioned for diesels and rotaries. Hybrids still use a gas motor, so that's not perfect. The only real answer is an EV, but most are above my price point ($20-25k) even with the tax credit. The only one that is close is the Nissan Leaf, but I've seen where owners are selling their Leafs back to Nissan due to poorer than promised EV range. I'd go with a bicycle as my work commute is only 2.6 miles, but my city is not suited to biking and I'd be risking my life doing it, and my city is also not equipped with good public transportation. I'm at a loss..

/\ No....why you would want a buy a Diesel when you only do 'a' 5-10 minute excursion is really beyond me...Diesels are NOT for short distance use...for ANY brand of car :).

Please whether it is Mazda Diesel or VW or any other make, it is NOT the engine for you, simple.

In Australia and Europe we have had diesels for many decades in cars (more so in Europe), and even in Europe issues happen (old Mazda Diesels) because owners buy them for economy and short use...a big mistake.

Whatever a car salesman says to you, Don't do it.

Naturally IF one drives daily for more than 20 minutes at a time the DPF will self clean (Mazda), anything shorter and it won't.

A Diesel is meant to run long distance, even clean diesels of today, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Good luck.

I would appreciate if you read my post before replying.

I made it quite clear why I preferred the diesel. You rehashing the same points I already read isn't helpful. You didn't answer the bolded question and didn't offer any advice. I don't know what a salesman has to do with what I mentioned, none of this was because what a saleman told me. If it was I would have said "But the salesman told me...".

I hope you don't think I'm being rude, it is just frustrating asking a question and being told exactly the same thing as before, and things I specifically stated completely ignored.

Mazda 6 with the diesel is going to be above your price point also, so you might as well look for something else.

So is the Mazda CX-5 with the diesel.
And eventually, even the Mazda 3 with a diesel, if that car comes to the US market.

So, no Mazda with a diesel for you.

BC.

According to prices overseas the difference is $2-3k USD. The base Sport is $21k. Add $2-3k and factor negotiation and I'm still well within my budget. People are getting Touring 6s with options for $22-23k when the base Touring starts at $24,495.

A diesel sport 6 after negotiation should be possible for $22-24k before tax/etc.

I'm not interested in a SUV. The 3 would certainly be in my price range.

Mazda 6 gas, is faster, and gets about the same MPG as the diesel without the hassle of costly diesel maintenance and the risk of the unknown as it will be the first of its kind in the states so expect some headaches.

I used to advocate the diesel but after doing research there is no logical reason to buy one.

I did read what you wrote...

NO... to your bold question, and that is what I replied ..No..

You were not ignored...no is NO...please take your frustration out somewhere else I suggest, whichever way you want to dissect a 'driving plan of use', it will not work,
a Diesel is not for a owner who drives 5000 miles a year ''at most''.

The rest I wrote as an assumption what 'a' car salesman might do/say before it happens, just to get a sale, in other words don't get talked into it (a Diesel)...Usually though car salesmen tell you what you want to hear.

Frankly, if I may be so, IF you did your homework you would not even be considering any Diesel Engined car.

One, two, or three 'long trips' a year would really make no difference to the operation of engine.

The Mazda SA DPF (converter) is operated by ECU (PCM Computer) 'burning off' particulates when the engine/coolant reaches a certain temperature (HOT), and @ pre-set drive cycles (not necessarily @ every turn key start).

Good luck.

Good luck getting much of a deal on a new Mazda as mark up is very low & if I am not mistaken the diesel will only be available in GT models and maybe T with the 6... add 2k to those prices and your at 26.5-31.5 before taxs, PDI, accessories, tint, financing etc.. Thats IF the diesel is $2k more than the 2.5 gas, I expect it to be in the 3K range.

The frustration was only generated by your reply. I didn't have any before.

Your answer of 'No' didn't address any specific question, and I couldn't assume it was to my main question. The rest of your post was so regurgitated, looking back I didn't know what 'No' might have referred to.

What was ignored was that I explicitly said I enjoyed the driving feel of the diesel. You then asked why I wanted a diesel. See what I mean?

Then you say something completely off the wall about 2-3 long trips not affecting the life of the engine?? - I asked no question regarding this, I merely said what my driving pattern was. Why are you answering an unasked question?

Isn't finding threads like this and asking questions about it part of 'doing my homework'? I haven't bought the car yet, don't condemn me for something I haven't done.

I think I have the question answered finally, but you really need to learn how to communicate. The answer to my post should have been 'No, the system doesn't work that way. It needs to be driven at least 15-20 minutes each time, not just once a week as you suggest. You should buy a gas car'.

Instead of that I get an ambiguous 'No' followed by a summary of the first post of this thread which I had already read, and a question about why I want a diesel when that was already answered. Then in your last post you tell me I should know the answer to my question already if I had done my homework. What sense does that make?

--

Thanks for the answer, but you made this much more difficult than it had to be.

OH cricky...

YOU mentioned your DRIVING Habits...I replied to it..

What do you not understand, in my reply?, you have been a member here for 5 minutes, I have no idea who you are, or much about what you really want as your thinking is all over the place as to what brand, what type of vehicle in 'buying' 'a' car.

I simply stated based on what YOU said about your driving habits that a Diesel is not the TYPE of car for a person like you to own...IMO...even though you like the 'feeling of a diesel'.

You did say..

This thread is about "Skyactiv Engines Oil Level Issues" which is directly attributed to owner driving habits and use of said car....which IS then directly related to engine longevity and issues!...plus some Mazda ECU updates.

It appears you want someone else to make up your mind for you on 'what type' of car to drive and own.....this thread is not the place to continue .....


IF you have been reading what I wrote in the first page (that is page 1 of this thread) as you say you have then ALL of your questions (like above) should have been answered....??

....you really need learn how to comprehend first before asking 'a' question.:)

Please stop, Maxvla... ASH is here to help the community and is generous enough to provide such valuable enlighten to us free of charge, yet people like you make those who are willing to help want to shy away instead.

Wow. Grats on me never buying a Mazda of any kind and actively protesting against it for anyone who asks me. You are truly a one of a kind ambassador for your brand.

grow up..

You are the type of owner who is never satisfied with an answer or reply, I say you have done the Mazda community a favour...

You would be the type to let all the warnings and advice given to you to go ahead and buy a diesel car anyway, and when something then goes wrong with it's 10 minutes of daily use, you abuse the brand.

If you liked your own answer then WHY did you ask...lol..

Typically your comeback reply would have been "why doesn't the system work that way"...

I repeat READ page 1 of THIS thread.
No one can ever satisfy ...:wavey:

Hi BaronX. I had oil dilution problem with my mazda6 diesel. Oil level started to increase dramaticaly after aprox. 25 000 km. Main problem was faulty pressure sensor in particle filter. Engine was theretore trying to regenerate too often which led to oil dillution. Problem disapeared after sensor replacent. So try the same thing.