How to beat the Ferrari Enzo
_________________ 0 - 1/4 mile ____ Engine ______ Price
MTI Z07 Corvette ___ 10 sec _____ Pushrod V8 ___ US$ 100K Ferrari Enzo ________ 11 sec ______ DOHC V12 ___ US$ 650K http://www.motorsporttech.com http://www.corvettemagazine.com/2001.../z07/z07-1.asp |
|
hahaha... only you man, only you... ahahaha...
rediculous. but funny. :D |
Ho to beat EVERY street legal car (in stock form) ever built at the quarter mile and save yourself a TON of cash doing it.
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 1/4 mile --- 9.89 sec @ 145.35 0 - 60 ----- 2.73 sec MSRP ----- $10,499 |
Originally posted by Schneegz Ho to beat EVERY street legal car (in stock form) ever built at the quarter mile and save yourself a TON of cash doing it. Suzuki GSX-R1000: 1/4 mile --- 9.89 sec @ 145.35 0 - 60 ----- 2.73 sec MSRP ----- $10,499 |
Originally posted by Schneegz Ho to beat EVERY street legal car (in stock form) ever built at the quarter mile and save yourself a TON of cash doing it. Suzuki GSX-R1000: 1/4 mile --- 9.89 sec @ 145.35 0 - 60 ----- 2.73 sec MSRP ----- $10,499 mercedes clk-gtr: 9.4 second quarter mile mercedes clk-gtr ss: ???? (<9.4 for sure) eb 16/4 veyron? of course, the clk-gtrs are essentially race cars, though they are street legal. However, they cost way more than $10,499 ... :) |
In that case, you can supercharge your Hayabusa up to 200+ hp. And if you don't mind loosing some handling, you can lengthen the swingarm a bit. Such bikes are running sub 9 second 1/4 miles for less than $25K for the bike and mods.
Or you can turbocharge your Busa and run it up to 246mph, like the guy who was on "Lightning Bikes" on the Discovery channel. Still under $25K for the whole bike. |
To truly *beat* a Ferrari Enzo you need about 10 minutes and one of these:
|
This thread should be titled: How to beat an Enzo in a straight line.. .. besides you're comparing empirical numbers only which do not tell 99% of the issue at hand..
Ultra exclusive, race ready production car that is a collectible and stirs passion like no other car can.. vs a street illegal race car that will probably need service every 2-3 months. These threads are becoming a little old now.. shrug.. |
Heck, the Enzo will probably need service every couple months too.
|
on a road course though the car will win everytime, those little bitty motorcycle tires do not allow for much grip, which forces them to slow down alot when cornering
|
Originally posted by The Beav on a road course though the car will win everytime, those little bitty motorcycle tires do not allow for much grip, which forces them to slow down alot when cornering That statetement is not true. It might be true for F1. Check out the lap times posted in this thread:Lap times |
Heh, heh, heh...
Here we go again. I went through all that trouble finding those road course times and yet some people refuse to be educated. Stock-based bikes are routinely beating stock-based race cars by more than 11sec at road courses around the country, even though the cars are much mroe heavily modified than the bikes. And yet, car-only guys refuse to accept the fact. Yes, Virginia, bikes really are faster than cars; in the straights AND around corners. |
Originally posted by Schneegz Heh, heh, heh... Here we go again. I went through all that trouble finding those road course times and yet some people refuse to be educated. Stock-based bikes are routinely beating stock-based race cars by more than 11sec at road courses around the country, even though the cars are much mroe heavily modified than the bikes. And yet, car-only guys refuse to accept the fact. Yes, Virginia, bikes really are faster than cars; in the straights AND around corners. |
...SR-3?? the hell is that?? if it's not a bike, it'll be slower.
anyways, it's this simple: unless the car is making downforce, and has a comparable hp/wieght ratio (which only a really well-prepped race car would), a bike will be faster. why?? because bikes can "make" grip using the mass of the rider, hanging off the side to use the height of their body and bike as a lever FOR gravity, putting an increased load on the tyres without increasing mass (the same deal as aerodynamic downforce), creating a larger normal force from the ground, thus generating more friction as horizontal grip. really, no contest. |
Originally posted by wakeech ...SR-3?? the hell is that?? if it's not a bike, it'll be slower. anyways, it's this simple: unless the car is making downforce, and has a comparable hp/wieght ratio (which only a really well-prepped race car would), a bike will be faster. why?? because bikes can "make" grip using the mass of the rider, hanging off the side to use the height of their body and bike as a lever FOR gravity, putting an increased load on the tyres without increasing mass (the same deal as aerodynamic downforce), creating a larger normal force from the ground, thus generating more friction as horizontal grip. really, no contest. |
Beav:
Are you blind? Desmo996 already posted a link to a thread I started a while back ago about Ducati's V-4. That thread has a link to track times I found for Road Atlanta for Speed World Challenge race cars and AMA Superbikes. Here is the link again: Track Times Scroll a ways past the middle of the thread for the link. You'll notice that, even though the cars have contact patches enormously larger than the bikes, the bikes are going around the track more than 11sec faster than the cars. Why? The cars don't make enough down-force or have a power/weight ratio near that of the bikes. An F1 car is a different matter. But you can buy a road going version of Matt Mladin's GSX-R1000 that is almost as fast as his bike for less than $11,000. Good luck buying a street legal version of Schumacher's car for ANY price. Oh, and if Road Atlanta isn't to your liking, you can find other road courses on the link I posted on that thread. |
Originally posted by The Beav the argument isn't about weight or downforce it's about tread patch on the ground, a bike tire is about half the width of a car tire meaning that a car would have approximately 4 times the tire on the ground, you can't make up for that, |
Simple answer:
Sportbike= 400lbs Stripped out non carbonfiber open wheel car= 2000lbs (at least) For the car to perform equal it will have to have 5x the horsepower and 5 times the amount of contact patch for the tires to even be close. |
Yeah, gonna have to kinda disagree with you on that, Keech. Most road courses are not banked. A bike can overcome lateral G's by leaning only to a certain point(when the rider's knee-puck rides the asphalt and he's hanging off as far as he can), at which point his cornering speed is maxed out without losing traction, traction which is finite with bike tires. Cars have far more grip to absorb these side forces. If tire footprints were not that important, F1/CART would use smaller tires/wheels to reduce unsprung weight. All road course lap records are held by cars that not even the fastest bike can overcome with the laws of Physics(Inertia specifically).
:) |
Originally posted by SPDFRK Simple answer: Sportbike= 400lbs Stripped out non carbonfiber open wheel car= 2000lbs (at least) For the car to perform equal it will have to have 5x the horsepower and 5 times the amount of contact patch for the tires to even be close. and keech i also have to disagree, if patch size didn't matter we'd all be running really thin tires to save weight, but no you see performance cars have wide tires to grab better traction around corners, that's why use that auto-x try and get the widest tires possible to fit on our cars |
Originally posted by The Beav if patch size didn't matter we'd all be running really thin tires to save weight, but no you see performance cars have wide tires to grab better traction around corners, that's why use that auto-x try and get the widest tires possible to fit on our cars look man, people DO run thin tyres to save weight where it counts (like on my Echo), but i've never heard of an auto crosser running tyres that were 12" wide just becuase they'd fit (slip angles'd be all effed up)... as i was saying, width/contact patch affects heat up, not overall grip: if you run skinny tyres, which were magically just as capable in every other way to a wider tyre, they would allow you to run 'round the corner just as quick, but will overheat and fall apart really quick as well. look at last year's FIA Euro Touring Car series: there was a team with a Civic, and they'd chosen to run tyres significantly thinner than spec, becuase they couldn't get the car to use the wider ones (ie: get the heat in) effectively. there are more factors than this, many of which i dont' understand or even know the right name for, but i'm telling you: wider tyres do NOT universally equate to more grip. just because a bike's tyres are thinner than a car's DOES NOT mean that they can't have more overall grip (even in an absolute measurement, it's quite possible). |
wider tyres do NOT universally equate to more grip. An object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force(ground/air friction, gravity, etc.). The more kinetic energy(i.e. velocity) it stores the more energy is required to pull it off-vector or course. I've yet to see a bike break 1G on a skidpad. Bike sidewalls are very stiff to prevent squirm, which comes easily( F1 racing= scary) Don't me wrong, I ride a Ninja myself but I know the cornering limitations. ;) |
Hey, BEAVE! Are you BLIND?
We've posted track times TWICE showing AMA superbikes beat Speed World race cars on ROAD COURSES, and you keep ignoring that fact. Furthermore, Motorcyclist ran an article in which a Corvette Z06 was pitted against a GSX-R1000. The Gixxer spanked the Vette handily. The Gixxer was pulling higher G's in the corners, and the only way to do that is to go around the corner faster. For the last time, LOOK AT MY LAST POST on this page. If you refuse to look at that post and those links, you are avoiding facts that clearly do not support your argument. |
Originally posted by wakeech ...SR-3?? the hell is that?? if it's not a bike, it'll be slower. http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/ http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/sr3_ad/index.htm http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/new_range/index.htm Anyway, I thought comparing this to a motorcycle would be more fair because it is designed from the ground up to be a no compromises racecar, whereas cars such as corvettes have to have 2 seats, a roof, a/c, cd, etc. (Most people want amenities). Anyway, all those things add weight. Motorcycles don't have those things, so I figured it would be better to compare a car that doesn't have those things either. --Edit-- Also, this car is stock. So if you compare it to motorcycles, you should compare it to stock motorcycles (unless you're going by price, in which case the SR3 will get wasted because it costs mucho $$$) |
A Z06 is hampered by the weight of its luxuries and ameneties (as is any car that is factory stock). A GSX-R1000 is hampered by the fact that it needs to cost no more than $11K, otherwise, nobody would buy it. The SR-3 is not hampered by either of these limitations. So, no, the SR-3 is not a good comparison.
A better comparison would be a motorcycle to an Elise or an Opal Speedster. The bike would still win. |
|
The handling ability of a wheeled vehicle is not dependant upon the amount of tire it has in contact with the ground. It's a simple matter of physics. The force of static friction is equal to the mass of the object (m) multiplied by the normal force (in this case, gravity (g)) and by the coefficient of static friction (s). Friction=mgs. Area has a negligible effect on this force. As mass increases, so does the force of friction, but so does the inertia of the object which therefore increases its resistivity to a change in motion (increases force applied to the tires when turning) and so makes it more likely to break loose when turning hard. The compound the tires are made out of is more impactful on handling than the actual size of the tire patch on the ground. The reason why race cars use big, wide tires is to reduce the chance of the whole tire being over something slippery (e.g. sand) at one time and to decrease the sidewall:tire width ratio, decreasing the amount of flex experienced during hard cornering and so improving handling by keeping the tread on the ground. The area of tire that hits the ground has more to do with the amount of pressure exerted on the ground, which is more important in poor traction conditions than in tire-tarmac conditions.
|
97gpt:
Good explanation. You forgot one thing. Downforce. The normal force on the vehicle in motion includes the amount of downforce acting on the vehicle... N = weight + downforce And traction = friction = N(coefficient of friction) On most road cars, downforce is negative. That means that most road cars actually generate lift at speed. Most road cars are at a huge disadvantage when compared to motorcycles because they actually loose traction (friction) as velocity increases. Very few road cars generate much positive downforce. Race cars, on the other had, can generate enormous amounts of downforce, depending on what the rules allow. F1 cars, for example, generate upwards of 3x their own weight in downforce at high speed. Motorcycles, because of their tall, skinny shape, generate very little downforce or lift, so they perform best on "slow", very twisty courses. This is especially true of the smaller, lighter 2-stroke race bikes, but they are heading toward extinction. |
very well said both of you
bikes are *much* faster than a stock production vehicle. the times, and the physics, prove this repeatedly |
anytime you can have a 150hp+ engine strapped to 2 wheels, nitrous, and a gross weight of 600lbs you've got a rocket on wheels.
I wonder how fast my protege would go if i chopped it and only drove around with the front clip :D |
2003 Mitsubishi Evolution VIII with Buschur Racing Modifications:
1/4 Mile: 12.42 seconds Engine: 2.0 liter L4 Twin Scroll Turbo 21 psi Cost: $31,000 + $7,000 in mods. How important is 1 second anyway??? |
Here's one that can take on the Enzo:
http://www.pettitracing.com/sections/Banzai.html Pettit Racing RX-7 Banzai Edition 1/4 mile - 10.855 sec @ 126mph 0-60 - 4.0 sec Price: $35k plus the cost of your car If you're gonna do it, do it with a Wankel and save yourself $600k. |
Originally posted by MadRonin Here's one that can take on the Enzo: http://www.pettitracing.com/sections/Banzai.html Pettit Racing RX-7 Banzai Edition 1/4 mile - 10.855 sec @ 126mph 0-60 - 4.0 sec Price: $35k plus the cost of your car If you're gonna do it, do it with a Wankel and save yourself $600k. |
Originally posted by wakeech ...or a 'Busa with a turbo, save yourself another +$30k on top of that. Having driven and ridden at 130mph+, I'll take the added protection (and cost) of a car over a motorcycle any day. Then again, hit a wall at 100mph+ in anything other than a track bred race car and your chances of survival drop significantly anyway. To each their own I guess. |
The nice thing about a 'Busa is that it's power band is so wide and useful. You can ride it around town in sixth gear and it won't complain one bit. Or you can ride it at 80mph in first gear and listen to it scream. Your choice. Need to pass on a two lane road while in 6th gear? No need to down shift. Just twist the throttle. But don't twist too hard. You'll be far into the tripple digits in no time and you won't even know it because the engine is so smooth and the aerodynamics are so good.
The best thing about motorcycles is that always intangiable "fun factor". Anything with two wheels and an engine makes every trip to the grocery store, the barber shop, the book store (to read car and bike mags :D ); any trip at all becomes an adventure. The feeling of vulnerability mixed with the sensation of flying is intoxicating. It lets you know you're alive. It's the most exciting way to get from point A to point B that doesn't include an airplane, a parachute and an oxygen tank. It doesn't matter if you're riding a $35K Benelli Tornado or a '78 Honda CB400 you rescued from oblivion for $600. Sure, some bikes are more fun than others, but ALL of them are more exciting than any car because they are so LIBERATING. And unless you ride motorcycles you'll never know what I'm talking about. |
true, but the organ donor factor keeps me away from them
|
Wuss. :D
|
Originally posted by Schneegz Wuss. :D |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands