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European auto industry faces tough CO2 emissions reduction target for 2030

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European auto industry faces tough CO2 emissions reduction target for 2030

Old 12-18-2018, 03:54 AM
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European auto industry faces tough CO2 emissions reduction target for 2030

https://europe.autonews.com/environmentemissions/european-auto-industry-faces-tough-co2-emissions-reduction-target-2030?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20181218&utm_co ntent=hero-readmore

BRUSSELS -- Auto industry groups warned that a European Union goal to cut CO2 emissions from cars by 37.5 percent and from vans by 31 percent by 2030 compared to 2021 levels would threaten automotive jobs and consumer choice.

Representatives of EU governments and the European Parliament agreed to the reduction on Monday, finally settling differences between vehicle-producing countries and environmentally-conscious lawmakers.

The compromise was tougher than the original EU executive proposal of an emissions decline of 30 percent compared to 2021.
EU negotiators also fixed an interim CO2-cut target for cars and vans of 15 percent by 2025.

The 28-nation bloc has been divided for months over how strict to be on CO2 emissions from vehicles as part of its push to reduce greenhouse gases.
Germany, with the EU's biggest auto sector worth some 423 billion euros ($480 billion) in 2017, had warned that tough targets and the drive towards more electric cars could harm its industry and cost jobs.

Germany's VDA auto industry association said the new legislation would set high demands while doing little to promote or provide incentives for switching to electric vehicles

The negotiated deal "demands too much," said VDA head Bernhard Mattes. "Nobody knows today how the agreed limits can be achieved in the given time," he said.

ACEA, the European auto industry's lobby group, expressed "serious concerns" about the 2030 target because delivering a 37.5 percent CO2 reduction "might sound plausible but is totally unrealistic based on where we stand."

The compromise was tougher than the original EU executive proposal of an emissions decline of 30 percent compared to 2021. Germany had endorsed that, but a push by several EU countries, including the Netherlands and France, raised the target to 35 percent. The EU Parliament had wanted 40 percent, so in the end, they split the difference.

The EU's current average caps on CO2 from cars are 130 grams per km set for 2015 and 95g/km fixed for 2021.

Brussels-based green lobbying group Transport & Environment expressed disappointment the deal was not even more ambitious.

"Europe is shifting up a gear in the race to produce zero emission cars. The new law means by 2030 around a third of new cars will be electric or hydrogen-powered," its clean vehicles director Greg Archer said. "That's progress, but it's not fast enough to hit our climate goals."

The agreement still needs the approval of member-country governments and the full EU Parliament -- steps that are usually formalities.

"This is an important signal in our fight against climate change," Environment Minister Elisabeth Koestinger of Austria, current holder of the EU’s rotating presidency, said in a statement after a nine-and-a-half-hour meeting that marked the third attempt in as many weeks to achieve a breakthrough. "We had tough and intense negotiations."

About 15 million autos are sold each year in the EU, with cars accounting for more than a tenth of the bloc’s releases of CO2, the main greenhouse gas blamed for rising global temperatures. Electric vehicles in Europe have a market share of around 1.5 percent.

Bloomberg and Reuters contributed to this report
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:58 AM
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Don't you just love this rubbish, the idiots in Brussels are clueless,
Just throw out any CO2 TARGET NUMBERS and you must get there, just don't ask us how car makers will do it..

These geniuses do know that fossil fuels (lots of) are still needed to make electric cars.

The cost will be so great that car makers just will not sell the product even if they get close as nobody will be able to afford the product.
As I said we will all be sitting in little Google Pods by 2040 that will go no faster than 60-70 KMH.
No person will have a job as manufacturing will end as AI will take over, 95% of the current crop of car makers will fold/go broke.

And they wonder why the people are revolting...
Cant wait for that new RE...
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:13 AM
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They should go broke if they can't continue to provide transportation devices under new constraints. Adapt or die.

Same goes for people who can't adapt out of automated jobs.

​​​​​​All of your complaints are about the current state of technology, which is the exact thing the regulations are supposed to change.

Last edited by Loki; 12-18-2018 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:10 AM
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But what if no one(other than maybe Tesla) can adapt to the said goals? VW isn't the only one lying about emissions anymore. The exact problem is that the regulations are set well ahead of what's possible and economical.

And as mentioned, it hurts the consumers as well. Limited choices unless you are rich and can afford an EV.

And it's easy for us to say these things. With that many people out of jobs, that's not good for anyone. See the recent GM plant closure for example. Oh and see the people protesting in Paris due to the rising road tax there.

Last edited by UnknownJinX; 12-18-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
But what if no one(other than maybe Tesla) can adapt to the said goals? VW isn't the only one lying about emissions anymore. The exact problem is that the regulations are set well ahead of what's possible and economical.

And as mentioned, it hurts the consumers as well. Limited choices unless you are rich and can afford an EV.

And it's easy for us to say these things. With that many people out of jobs, that's not good for anyone. See the recent GM plant closure for example. Oh and see the people protesting in Paris due to the rising road tax there.

The people in Paris were protesting, among other things, increase on taxes on FUEL.
And you mean the GM plant closures because of stagnating demand on their cars?
The Ford model lineup reduction because of slumping demand on particular types of cars?

Hyundai and Nissan both have EV's in the 30,000s CAD range before gov't incentives. The Bolt is somewhere in there as well also. Not really a rich man's toy. There are like 5 EVs on my street, including an electric Focus.

While the automakers complain, there is a slew of EV models that's about to hit the market in the next 2 years. VW themselves have like 5 EV models coming out. So they bitch and complain because they don't want to be regulated, right until the point they start making money on gov't incentivized EV purchases. Or, someone else will come along and innovate for them, like Tesla did. And then those people will employ the skilled labour developed by the automakers -- and without UAW ball and chains to boot

Keep in mind the automakers will not blink twice to screw people over. Canada just wrote down Chrysler's loan to the tune of like $2B, right after GM Oshawa closed up shop and while Chrysler is constantly taunting closing its plant in Brampton. Don't be confused about who wears the pants in the automaker-government relationship.

Last edited by Loki; 12-18-2018 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
The people in Paris were protesting, among other things, increase on taxes on FUEL.
And you mean the GM plant closures because of stagnating demand on their cars?
The Ford model lineup reduction because of slumping demand on particular types of cars?

Hyundai and Nissan both have EV's in the 30,000s CAD range before gov't incentives. The Bolt is somewhere in there as well also. Not really a rich man's toy. There are like 5 EVs on my street, including an electric Focus.

While the automakers complain, there is a slew of EV models that's about to hit the market in the next 2 years. VW themselves have like 5 EV models coming out. So they bitch and complain because they don't want to be regulated, right until the point they start making money on gov't incentivized EV purchases. Or, someone else will come along and innovate for them, like Tesla did. And then those people will employ the skilled labour developed by the automakers -- and without UAW ball and chains to boot

Keep in mind the automakers will not blink twice to screw people over. Canada just wrote down Chrysler's loan to the tune of like $2B, right after GM Oshawa closed up shop and while Chrysler is constantly taunting closing its plant in Brampton. Don't be confused about who wears the pants in the automaker-government relationship.
I still say an EV is not for everyone simply because not everyone has a garage or a parking spot with charging. If you street park, how do you charge overnight? Or you have to park at the closest charging station?

You guys in Quebec get a lot of rebates for EV, BTW. BC also appears to have some good incentives. I have read somewhere that some dealerships in Ontario are transferring their unsold EV inventories to Quebec since Ontario killed off their rebate program.

And fair, I get your point: automakers, like most big coops, aren't exactly nice, but how does this kind of regulations affect us, the consumers? What if, eventually, this means our 8s will be banned to get on the road? Something to think about.

Last edited by UnknownJinX; 12-18-2018 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:28 AM
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That's a good point, people who park on the street aren't the best candidates for EVs. What do they do now? Gas up at a gas station, right. BMW and Porsche, the VERY people represented by the automakers association cited in the article, just unveiled a super fast charger that gives you 100km of range in 3 mins.
​​​​​​
That's why I say they bitch and complain out of principle, but then move right ahead with building out practical EV/ZEV solutions. And with all that development come new suppliers, service segments and .. Jobs. Words vs. Actions and all that.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:26 PM
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OH so you expect the Government to pay and subsidize with taxpayers money comrade, ******* Teslar would not be around without it and still cant make 1 cent...adapt or die you said, clearly see where you are at and in the mean time the world debt spiral continues because of stupid ******* politicians that give out free money to equally dumb public, Nothing is for free, someone pays.
Cant wait to see faces when the world economy collapses.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
OH so you expect the Government to pay and subsidize with taxpayers money comrade, ******* Teslar would not be around without it and still cant make 1 cent...adapt or die you said, clearly see where you are at and in the mean time the world debt spiral continues because of stupid ******* politicians that give out free money to equally dumb public, Nothing is for free, someone pays.
Cant wait to see faces when the world economy collapses.
Dude. what?
I don't expect the government to subsidise my purchase, but it's nice if they do, because that is LITERALLY their job: redistribute tax money to encourage behaviors that while beneficial for society, have no direct monetary value. Operating a prison costs tax payer money, but we spend it to encourage people to not kill each other.

At $30k, we already have EVs on the market that don't need subsidies to compete with ICE cars. It has already happened. It appears you're not happy about it, but neither were horse-breeders when cars came along.

Do you have any actual arguments for why the world economy should crumble? How's our economy going to look when droughts and hurricanes become more prevalent. The PENTAGON is making preparations for adapting to climate change, and if anyone is a driver of world debt, it's those guys.

Also, personal note: I lived under real communism, do not call me comrade. It will not end well.

Last edited by Loki; 12-18-2018 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
That's a good point, people who park on the street aren't the best candidates for EVs. What do they do now? Gas up at a gas station, right. BMW and Porsche, the VERY people represented by the automakers association cited in the article, just unveiled a super fast charger that gives you 100km of range in 3 mins.
​​​​​​
That's why I say they bitch and complain out of principle, but then move right ahead with building out practical EV/ZEV solutions. And with all that development come new suppliers, service segments and .. Jobs. Words vs. Actions and all that.
Yeah, I read about the super fast charging station. Curious how that will turn out. My only concern would be the impact it has on the battery capacity if someone were to use this regularly on their vehicle. Batteries don't like to be fast charged.

Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
OH so you expect the Government to pay and subsidize with taxpayers money comrade, ******* Teslar would not be around without it and still cant make 1 cent...adapt or die you said, clearly see where you are at and in the mean time the world debt spiral continues because of stupid ******* politicians that give out free money to equally dumb public, Nothing is for free, someone pays.
Cant wait to see faces when the world economy collapses.
Uh... Ash you need to calm down.

I get it, as car enthusiasts, none of us like it, and I am perfectly willing to admit that some of my arguments are biased, but at the same time, you have to realize the objective advantages of an EV(as in virtually everything except for charging time and convenience).

Really, the bottleneck of EV is just on the battery, but like most technology, the battery is evolving and the price is coming down. They will only become more affordable.

I am not really a fan of Tesla, but at least they forced other manufacturers to start considering EVs more seriously than making basically road-legal golf carts.

As for economy, this isn't a subject I really want to touch because I am not very good at it. I do agree with what Loki said about government(that's what subsidy does), but you know, paying your money towards oil companies and some oil-rich countries... You know where I am going with this.

One thing to note: while it's true that EVs are more polluting to manufacture, they offset the pollution in road use even if your electricity is generated from fossil fuel.


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Old 12-19-2018, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
Really, the bottleneck of EV is just on the battery, but like most technology, the battery is evolving and the price is coming down. They will only become more affordable.
Generation and transmission capacity is going to have to keep up as well.
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Old 12-19-2018, 02:50 PM
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Absolutely. As mentioned, we still don't quite have the infrastructure yet, but we will get there eventually.
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:46 PM
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The manufacturers will just push the additional costs on to the consumers.

The more stringent emission/MPG vehicles will likely DECREASE the total fuel consumption, and in turn the EU countries will have to RAISE the fuel tax even more to compensate.

Even if every car in the EU was electric, the government is so drunk on the fuel tax that they would institute some type of mileage tax to replace it.

Either way get your butt holes ready
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