zoom44

yeah ill be reaching out to see if I can get us sound technical reasons. is the turbo system just in the way in the current chassis? does the cx-9 just physically have more room? I'm not remembering the difference between the cx-9 in NA current chassis and the Mazda 6 chassis.

As for AWD- it's not about Snow. At least not up here in the Pacific North West. Here it's marketing against all the Subarus sold up here. people want to take their car to a gravelly road and to a trailhead to go hiking on the weekend etc. Me personally I'd rather have it putting the 310ft/lbs to the ground then all 310 going to the front wheels.

ASH8

Sir I HEAR YOU and I do not BLAME YOU

You can bet on Mazda pissing around with their ENGINE/TRANS selections Time and TIME again, too small.

They MNAO still has this VP (Vice President) who appears to me to do sweet F*ck ALL, what the hell does this guy do,
does he LISTEN to MAZDA Dealers and their Existing MAZDA Customers or not?? !!

STOP mucking around MAZDA NAO and order these models with the LARGEST Displacement ENGINE
you have available right now and that is the 2.5cc TURBO, BANG, DONE, Pretty SIMPLE man.

EVERY-TIME MAZDA (ARE YOU LISTENING!!!!) YOU KEEP RELEASING any MODEL WITH same old SMALL ENGINES!!
YOUR VERY LOYAL OWNERS WANT POWER!!!

ASH8

Yes, I believe you are right, I somehow do not think the current GL Mazda 6 platform is engineered to take more Power/Torque to the rear with a Turbo...this is the Technical/Safety/Legal issue.

Take the ND MX-5/Miata, can not take anymore power than the standard 2.5 banger without major re-engineering/chassis strengthening and new parts like an upgrade to 5 stud/lug wheel bearing/collars, new differentials/axles/transmissions/floor braces/brakes and then crash testing/compliance. YES it can be done, .... BUT this reaction to market demand is WAY TOO SLOW god dam it...!

Just look what happens when Mazda adds the 2.5l to the ND without proper engineering and testing to the Drive Train, the result is many retailed 2.5l ND Transmission (6MT) breakdowns, the 6MT has been factory updated 4 times to the 6MT 1st and 2nd, 3rd, 4th, reverse Gears, Cluster Gear over the same original 1.5l ND 6MT which the Trans was only engineered for. (the USA/Canada and Australia/NZ insisted the ND must have a 2.5l Banger as MMC Japan was originally ONLY going to have a 1.5l), some US ND Owners are on their 3rd complete 6MT.

UnknownJinX

I can understand how people want a bit more power for the 6. I recall that a couple of people at the Accord forum said they would have considered the 6 if it has a more powerful engine option since these people come from the V6 Accords which put out about 270~280 BHP.

Personally, I am not really brand loyal. I didn't care much for Mazda until I learned about rotaries. I don't think there are that many people who are brand loyal. I like anything that looks good to my eyes, has a healthy amount of power, and offers a MT option.

I have learned that, yes, AWD can give you an edge in some situations, but I am not sure if there will be enough people that will pay extra for it. Ford Fusion has an AWD option, but no one seems to give a crap... So I have doubts Mazda will do it.

MattMPS

a friend of mine owns a modified NC in order to have 3-4 hours trackdays 2 time /months. His specialized reference shop (a guy very expert about track oriented modded Mx-5s since many years) told him that ND is not good for tackdays....everything is too tiny.

i mean transmission and chassis mainly.....

New Yorker

My RX-8 is my fourth Mazda in 26 years, and this loyal owner doesn't want more power. I’m a subscriber to Graham Chapman’s philosophy; what I want is LIGHTER CARS that dance well, as lighter cars are more fun to drive. Personally, I believe most cars today have more power than they need. (And if you're listening Mazda, don't touch the Miata. The latest iteration is commendably lighter and smaller than the previous version. You guys definitely "get it".)

Weight Is Always More Important than Horsepower

A More Powerful Car is Not Always a Better One | Automobile Magazine

NotAPreppie

I'm still waiting for my brown Mazda6 wagon with a logitudinal VR5 turbodiesel and rear-bias AWD with TorSen diffs front/center/rear receiving power through a 6MT.

Or maybe, just dust off the RX-8 tooling, update it to fit the SkyActiv 2.5T and put it on sale for $30k.

77mjd

If they could ever make that work, I'd be in line for one.

UnknownJinX

It depends on the kind of car you are talking about.

If you are talking about the ND MX-5, then yeah, keep it the way it is now. There was a video someone made that complained about the powerless nature of ND, but it got burned at stake by everyone, and one comment pointed out that MX-5 is the only car in its class(small roadster) that ends up surviving to this day with the Colin Chapman philosophy. M2R and S2k both bit the dust. ND also pulls faster than an RX-8 because it's so light. The only way to make a MX-5 more powerful than it is only without destroying the balance and light weight is with a rotary engine, but that has its own set of issues.

But for family cars like the 6, the same logic doesn't really apply. I don't expect any FWD to be that good handling. My Accord Coupe V6 accelerates fairly fast and has a lot more low-end, but the handling is not that great, and I definitely wouldn't take turns like I do in my RX-8. That's what the car was for, though: a bit of power and good amount of practicality(less so with the Coupe, but it's still spacious). Most other companies offer at least 2 engine options for their mid-size Sedans, so they have grannies buying the less powerful cars with good fuel economy and the people who care about more power so they can have a bit of silly fun and/or pass others more easily on highways.

blackmount

Sorry If I am late to the show, but if that's not the case I thought this might be relevant...

I read an article by Drive today that Mazda want's to have AWD in the 3 and 6, but due to design constraints of existing models they cannot do it but, hinted to look for it in the next generation of 3 and 6.

Mazda Wants All-Wheel Drive In The Next 3 and 6 - The Drive

For those who don't want to click and read the article, here's the highlight.

"I think we are not able to combine four-wheel drive and the 2.5-litre turbo. We have a layout issue with the sedans, that’s why a four-wheel drive isn’t deployed on the Mazda3 and 6 so far," said Moro. "But there is a huge demand, at least what I know is that in the east coast of the USA, 80 or 90 percent of premium sedans are sold with all-wheel drive." Moro adds, "Four-wheel drive becomes a premium queue for U.S. consumers and obviously I have asked our R&D department to think about how we can accommodate four-wheel drive capability in the future."

BUT

"We did reach out to Mazda and a spokesperson told The Drive that while it will "continue to investigate how best to bring its vehicles to the U.S. market," there is nothing further to "share about the potential for future Mazda3 and Mazda6 vehicles to include an all-wheel-drive option" at this time. "


I find it odd they say there is a layout problem but AWD models are available in other parts of the world? Is this an engine specific problem or maybe a design specific problem to meet US standards?

zoom44

layout problem with the Turbo 2.5l engine not with the non T version

NotAPreppie

I would bet that part of the problem is that profit margins are higher on crossovers so there's a disincentive to pull customers away from those models.

I don't think it's a conscious decision but rather a lack of drive. If the 3 and 6 were the profit margin leaders, I'd bet Mazda would import AWD variants of those with the quickness.

ASH8

BTW: Not certain IF it has been confirmed here but there is definitely No Manual Trans with this 2.5T Engine. only made available with Auto trans.

If anyone wants an official Mazda 2.5T Engine Manual let me know via a PM as I can not post a 10MB PDF here...still..lame IB.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

thats a shame, not that im in the market for one but less and less m/t choices sucks

ASH8

THE 2.5
TURBO...

Jdmx13b

neit_jnf

Fuel economy numbers are up

Bladecutter

It will be interesting to see what people get in the real world with the new body update, and the turbo engine.

BC.

neit_jnf

Here's how it compares to similar cars, Camry surprised me!

Mazda6 2.5T - 227 hp (on 87 oct)
Camry V6 - 301 hp
Accord 2.0T - 252 hp
Sonata 2.0T - 245 hp

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

Its direct competitor is the Honda Accord 2.0T, which is the top dog in the category, this is with consideration of chassis dynamics. The Accord does have the advantage of being all new from ground up as opposed to working on underpinnings dating back 7 years.

zoom44

someone throw the torque and weight numbers in there. ill take care of it later when i get done work if no one else has

NotAPreppie

2017.5 Mazda6 GT Automagic (We'll just assume the bigger engine is in the highest-spec)
3250 lbs
2.5T engine: 227 HP (5000 RPM), 310 torques (2000 RPM)

2018 Camry XSE V6
3571 lbs
3.5L V6: 310 HP (6600 RPM), 267 torques (4700 RPM)

2018 Accord Automatic Touring 2.0T
3428 lbs
2.0T: 252 HP (6500 RPM), 273 torques (1500 RPM)

2018 Sonata 2.0T Limited
3589 lbs
2.0T: 245 HP (6000 RPM), 260 torques (1350 RPM)

wannawankel

I wonder if the Camry has the new 10 speed automatic to achieve that MPG economy. #.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

Absolutely. I hope Mazda considers a 7 or 8 speed transmission for their automatics. I have their "SkyActiv" 6 Speed AT and I can see the benefits of having an additional gear or two around town.

UnknownJinX

Camry and Sonata have 8AT.

Accord has 10AT for the 2.0T and CVT for the 1.5T. Both are available in 6-speed as well for stick shift people.

Yeah, Mazda is falling behind in terms of transmission tech. Maybe they can borrow the Toyota 8AT/CVT, now that Mazda has a partnership with Toyota.

Also, remember that turbo can be a bit of an EPA cheater. Drive turbo cars gently and you will get good gas mileage, but drive them hard, the fuel mileage can go down pretty fast(due to the additional fuel injected to keep the turbos cool).