20% Ethanol in our gas? oh oh.
 

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14238

10% is already bullshit, now they want even more because "omfg we're not making enough money you piece of $hit !"

What sup with these "Corn Ethanol" people, there is almost no benefits in Corn based Ethanols. It cost a lot of money and energy to make, it uses a lot of water, and what it came out is ? some shit that has so little Energy volume, and of course it uses OUR food to make them. Unlike Sugar cane.

This is sad.

Lets assign an ethanol tzar. That way, when their god awful abomination of a fuel destroys all the rubber and aluminum parts of my car I'll know who to send the repair bill to.

From my Owner's Manual:

In a big box marked "CAUTION":
And:
Our cars are not unique in this caution. Components in the fuel system are not designed to handle the damage - from rubber breakdown in hoses and pumps, to water separation in the fuel tank - caused by high concentrations of ethanol. So far, only cars certified "E-85" can safely run more than 10% ethanol. According to this website there are only about 40 vehicles manufactured worldwide that advertise E-85 compatibility.

So, any government is going to end up with a lot of blood (lawsuits) on their hands if they go ahead with this proposal.

I'd urge all of you who are able (US Citizens) to send an email to your local representatives stating your opposition to this proposal, and to make whatever facts you can find known to them.

^shell v-power does NOT contain any ethanol.

This does not make sense... unless you factor in the cost of changing existing infrastructure to Electric stations.

It's cheaper to continue using "fluid" fuel for the time being. Doesn't hurt gas company's bottom line.

IMHO: It's a half baked solution, just like hybrids. I prefer a whole answer, not a sitting on the fence answer. Mugwump... that's what they are, Mugwumps!

A mug wump is a bird sitting on a fence, with his mug on one side and his "wump" hanging over the other.

Mugwump.

Give me a gas powered car, or (for goodness sakes), an electric car. Heck, if they want a Mugwump solution so bad, why not use gas powered electric generators at the fuel stations to power the electric car battery chargers... I know, "doesn't fix anything really" ... except influence and convert the population's mode of transportation. Then future decisions can be made on what people need then - which by that time would mean "we mostly use electric cars". Thus we're no longer shackled to oil.

IMHO: they should cut the red tape and allow new companies to grow. Ones that sell solar panels or other highly effective energy converting technologies. Sell them to the people, for the people. Energy, free energy in the hands of the people. Wouldn't that be nice? However, this isn't the case... sigh... It is exhausting to see the symptoms of energy monopolies trying to safe guard their oily pocket books through government lobbyists.

It's not Global warming we should be alarmed about. It's greedy men, and why / how they get into positions of influence.

does anyone seriously still consider ethanol to be a real answer? and if not, then it's absolutely retarded if this goes through. It's like fixing a dam with a piece of scotch tape (which obviously wouldn't help) when we should be using duct tape (cause duct tape fixes everything).

^+1

Why ethanol is even produced is beyond me... In school I did a decent amount of research on alternative energy, Bio diesel and Ethanol included, and Ethanol has to be one of the dumbest ideas brought into mass production. The impact that it has environmentally is on par with gasoline, it causes food price increases and has a pretty big effect on local water tables because of the amount needed for production. It's probably the biggest farce as far as trying to be 'green' goes. Sorry for the rant, but it pisses me off, how much tax $$ is wasted on 'solutions' like this when real ones like solar, wind already exist

Ethanol? No thank you.

It does in Washington State

In NYC, ALL gas has 10% of "crap" in them ... oh wait, its called Ethanol.

Are we the people? or we're just no one. Cuz it seems that Government these days just do "whatever" the hell they want.

Time to spin up the FTL drives....

Hymee's supercharger can run on E85. So I'm OK with this as long as the gov't buys everyone with an RX-8 a Hymee Supercharger and pays for the install.

Can't beat the scumbags ripping us off and driving our economy into the crapper you might as well join 'em...

Honestly won't almost every single car manufacturer have to release a new flash to be able to accomodate this? Fuel economy will be worse on 20% eth., cost will increase significantly, and polution won't be reduced. This is just insane.

RK, NO FUEL gets within about 10 inches (downstream) of Hymee's (or a turbo). So, it will have no effect one way or the other.

Yes, you can tune our engine with the Scanalyser or Cobb to run 'properly' with E-85, or 100% alcohol for that matter. The requirement to 're-flash' is not the problem.


The point is that the components within our fuel system - the plastic in the fuel pump - the rubber and plastic fuel lines - the aluminum in the fittings - etc, etc, etc, has NOT BEEN DESIGNED to be fuel-tight over time with any concentration of alcohol over 10%.

There is a tremendous fire risk, and cost to owners of replacing failed components by running fuels contrary to the design of the components.

The oil companies want this due to gas conservation.
Every bit more Ethanol they can get into gasoline decreases gas mileage just a little bit more.
The idea is to do it gradually, so no one notices how gas mileage has dropped.

This is not cool, who would be the appropriate official to complain to?

Give me a brake. You want to blame this on the oil companies? You think they want to sell ethanol (which they don't make) more than gasoline (which they do make)? No :icon_no2:
Complain to your US Congressman & Senators.

oil companies are not that stupid, many of these "Ethanol" plants are owned and operated by oil companies.

Cuz

oil will run out one day, just dont know when, probably the end of the world.

Plants wont run out unless theres no more water.

in the other words

fossil oil = time limited profit (a loonnnng time ...)

Ethanol = goes on and on and on and on and on ...

Like they would listen ? seriously. :( lobbyist > us

Fucking mugwumps.

Regardless of who makes the ethanol, it is sold for the same price as gasoline, and causes more gasoline to be used.

Ethanol is the oil companies solution to reverse the gas conservation efforts.
If you have not noticed:
ahem...
ETHANOL CUTS GAS MILEAGE!:soapbox:

i think you're forgetting what it takes to produce ethanol in the first place...
either way, oil companies sell their oil. whether its used in manufacturing ethanol or at the pump, its still sold.
meh, whatever. itll never be mandated, and I try not to fill at crap-thanol pumps anyways.

Although you do need to burn some oil to make ethanol (farm equipment etc), the majority of the power used in production is from natural gas generally (and it takes quite a bit)

I would be interested to see what oil companies own what as far as production goes... I was under the impression ethanol was more on the agriculture industry side like ADM etc... do you have any links or anything showing that?

And yeah... it has less internal energy and burns at a lower air/fuel ratio, so takes more to do the same work

It makes a lot more sense to just use natural gas to power the car.

CNG is waaaaay better than ethanol. They converted all of the shuttle buses over at Logan airport to CNG, and the difference between the diesel fumes and CNG fumes is night and day. You used to literally get choked by that diesel crap in the air, now you notice nothing.

Id say electric.... you get a nice torque curve and don't necessarily have to burn anything to get the power.... CNG doesn't really solve the whole non-renewable issue, nor does it solve emissions, although they are lowered

it certainly does in any states where it is mandated by laws. Like her in oregon for instance where it used to be only in the winter but now starting this past year it is all the time because the co2 level in the gorge hit some magical number one day