Footman

iTrader: (2)

As I'm now researching on summer tires for 2011, I've realized that significant weight savings can also be achieved by buying lighter tires. Most people go the route of buying lightweight rims to reduce the total rolling wheel mass, or go for lightened brake rotors... but how about lighter tires. I've noticed this during my research and I'd just like to share with you all...

All info from Tirerack.com

Stock size: 225/45/R18 Dunlop SP Sport 8090
Weight: 25 Lb
Price [USD]: $260


What I am looking for.
Size: 245/40/R18


Continential ExtremeContact DW
Weight: 22 Lb
Price: $183
Treadwear: 340 AA A

Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
Weight: 24 Lb
Treadwear: 220 AA A
Price: $270

Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position
Weight: 28 Lb
Treadwear: 280 AA A
Price: $242

Hankook Ventus V12 Evo K110
Weight: 25 Lb
Treadwear: 280 AA A
Price: $146


These are the top tires according to the Tirerack survey for the Max Summer performance category, I did some more research on the Continentals and from what I read they're very good. I'm leaning towards these in spring 2011.

Shave 3 Lb off each corner.

04Green

iTrader: (1)

Only thought with Conti is the hard tread. I tore up some bridgestones that were hard. everyone I talked to said you need to stay under 300, some said under 200, or the tires can chunk out... The Conti looks like they have edges like my old G-Forces. I think that contributed as well.

The weight idea, especially since tire weight is out further than the wheel, is a great idea. A few pounds in the rotor is one thing, a few pounds in the tread, that far from the hub, takes a lot more energy to get spinning, or to stop.

maskedferret

iTrader: (1)

But therein lies the rub...ber. Prioritizing weight of the tire may significantly affect quality of ride / grip in top choices. Simple extreme example: Tire A is as hard as a hockey puck, but only weighs 15 lbs. per, while tire B is practically glue to the road, but weighs 30 lbs. per. Which is the better choice? Assume both are in the same category of tire.

The ultimate question here is: Does a decrease in rotational inertia outweigh the advantage of tire grip, and to what extent?

MrAdam5

I loves me some S.Drives.

Just sayin'.

Neo

Footman,

If you've continued to do your research from the Tirerack, you'll find out the Bridgestones came out on top compared to all the other tires.

If you're going to get new tires (which you desperately need!) it would either be the Michelin's or the Bridgestones.
Those 2 are constantly battling it out for all out grip and durability.

Between all those choices, I'd go for the Bridgestones.
They're the same ones I use on the FD. They grip fantastically.
I know I'll have to change the rubber on the car in 2 seasons. In which case, I would probably move up to the RE11.

The Miata comes with the RE050A rubber from the factory. They don't lie when they say the wear rate is 140. At 79k on the clock, and 2 seasons later, the rubber is starting to look very slickish. I'm pretty sure next season I'll have to get new rubber. In which case, I'll definitely get the RE11's!

20b-3rotor

iTrader: (2)

I have the Michelin on my 8 right now, came with the car. I would never by them... Think i will try the Bridgestone or toyo's next year

eug

iTrader: (2)

FWIW, I weighed my new Advan RZ's (a lighter rim than stock) with new Hankook V12's mounted. It was exactly the same weight as the old stock rim with a set of worn Toyo T1R's.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

So T1R's are heavier than stock tires.. WOW

rotarygreg

footman, thats now how i read eug's comment. eug, chime in here to confirm, but what im getting is that

Advan RZ wheels (lighter rim than stock) + hankook V12 tires weigh the same as stock rims + toyo T1rs

therefore it would stand to reason T1rs are light and hankook v12s are heavy as the the advan rims are suposed to be lighter than stock 8 wheels

honestly, im with maskedferret here. its not solely about weight. i do agree that sheading a few lbs/corner, especially out as far as the tire, would be a desirable thing. however if you have to sacrafice grip for that its going to be a toss up.

i think if you never drive the car hard then i would want a lighter tire for the few decimal points you might pick up on your gas mileage. if you drive it hard often, then grip is key. this car's frote is handling anyways, so having grip to make use of the beautiful chassis is job one in my books.

climacus

If you don't put a lot of miles on the car, get the Yokohama AD08 or Dunlop Star Spec instead. I've been through different types of tires on this car, I can honestly say this car really needs the really sticky tires for the following reasons:

1) the car is heavy
1) the stock setup understeers
2) the stock setup does not have a lot of turn-in dialed into the front
3) the stock setup is a little soft and doesn't have the MINI go-kart feel

When I finally went over to the darkside and bought the Extreme Performance tires on tirerack, it totally transformed the car. The cornering is much tidier since it just tracks around the corner like it is on rails. With the treadwear 280 stuff you will always be working a lot harder trying to figure out how far it will go before the tires give up.

One of the poster mentioned the Yoko S.Drive. That is a very compromised summer tire. I put them on my beater Civic cause it's the only summer rubber I could find that fits the teeny 15" Honda rims. It drives like mush. Comfy ride though. Definitely don't put that on a RX-8 unless you have to do crazy highway commute everyday.

Conclusion: buy the stickiest tires you can find for your sports car. Leave the mushy "sports tires" for Bimmer owners.

You also mentioned weight. The listed weight can be deceiving because tire widths vary a lot from model to model. The Yoko Advan Neova I've got is almost 2" wider than the factory tires even though it is listed as 225/40/18. So yes it will be heavier, but not because they used sh-tty rubber or something.

You'll have to weight the trade-offs between traction and shaving weights across different tire models. With the OEM RX-8 suspension, I think you have some wiggle room because it is a pretty soft setup. The setup is ultimately a "take a set in the corner and grip as long as possible" type of setup, so I think pure traction is more important than finding the lowest unsprung weight at all cost.

Just my random thoughts on the subject..

eug

iTrader: (2)

All I concluded in that brief eye-brow raising moment was that the V12's were a lot heavier than the T1R's:

Weighed on the same scale:
stockers + 245/40 T1R's = 44.6 lbs
Advan RZ 18x9ET35 = 19.2 lbs
Advan + 245/40 V12's = 44.6 lbs

Stock wheels are what, 21.5 to 23 or something like that? Meaning that the T1R's are between 21.6-23.1 lbs, while the Ventus is 25.4 lbs, which is close to the tirerack listing.

But in the end, I choose my tires based on their reviews, not their weight.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Why do you care how much your tires weight? For the track is is certainly better to have lighter wheels / tires but there is no such advantage on the street in fact a slightly heavier combo will do better as less vibration will be transmitted (can't quite explain it properly).

I run 17x9 enkei rpf1 for the track with slicks that are much lighter than street tires and 18x8 O.Z. ultraleggera on the street with KDWs (which I am not happy with due to all the noise) for the street.

If I was you, I would look for a tire that offer decent grip, comfortable ride and long life. I support Neo's bridgestone idea. Avoid ultra soft tires Like Star Spec, Ecsta XS, RE11, etc as they wear faster (unless you don't mind spending extra money).

REV-illusions

iTrader: (3)

Really? You find the noise of the KDW's to be that annoying.. I honestly don't really notice it at all... they've done me well on the street and on the track.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

^ Not to go of topic but the KDWs do produce a fair amount of noise (as is evident from their thread design) maybe I am getting to old but sometimes I find it annoying. I like the fact that they seem to be able to go forever (I drive very gently on the street) and even work well in the winter but would probably go with a quieter more comfortable tire the next time around. I had them at Mid Ohio for a couple of sessions, can't say they are great but I had allot of fun torturing them.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Footman, I forgot to mention, if you are going to be this thorough, I suggest that you look into the measuring devices used to determine the weight of the tires, the test conditions, whether the scale was properly calibrated and whether an independent tire weighting expert was present

Footman

iTrader: (2)

Climacus, I am running a non-stock suspension setup: Eibach Pro-Kit + Bilstein B8 shocks. B8's are shortened version of the B6's, there seems to be just one other guy on the forum running this setup and that person is in Europe.

The car is daily driven, and is driven moderately hard. I like to take fast corners and power through left and right turns with full throttle in 1st gear coming off the light.

How does this change your viewpoint on what tires I should use?
SO far, I am heavily relying on the survey reviews of people on tirerack, afterall besides any independent scientific testings, you can't go wrong with the testimony of MILLIONS OF MILES driven by everyday people in various different cars.

wayloco

i'm also looking for tires next year but i'm thinking of going staggered 235s and 245s. would I get any adverse affects from this?

Footman

iTrader: (2)

Please stay on topic of start a different thread. This is not a thread about adv/disadv of staggered setup.

wayloco

my apologies. I think i'll go start a new thread.
And pout a little, maybe cry a little too.
good luck sorting out all the info.

RXeckless

iTrader: (5)

Both great tire. For price Dunlop Star Spec. For the stickiest/street Yokohama AD08 but the price will scare many away from these. Had the Star Spec's on my 8 loved them and the Yoko are now on my 7 still up in the air but as good as the Dunlop's and maybe only a little better. Time will tell.

climacus

If you enjoy driving like a dick in the corner once in a while (and I hope we all do), then you owe it to yourself to at least try the Star Spec/Advan Neova type rubbers at least once. The extra grip and the steering feedback are worth the price of admission.

These tires just hooks up and go, even in 1st gear. At low speed, you have way more grip than you'll ever need, so you can freely prod the throttle in whatever redneck ways you desire with zero consequences. My DSC light has not lit up once ever since I switched to these type of rubbers.

If you put 30k on your car every summer, then yeah it does get a little pricey. Take care of them and you can get 3 summers out of a set. If you manage to burn through a set of these in one summer, then you definitely should continue using them because you are one crazy SOB. lol.

Listen to the guy who drives a wrong-hand-drive RX-7, he knows what he is talking about.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

"so you can freely prod the throttle in whatever redneck ways you desire with zero consequences."

I love this line! ahahaha

DarkBrew

Hey FM,
I picked up KDWs in Sauga this year really cheap @ tires23
Very good street tires except for the road noise.
They don't tram-line like the Bridgestones did and they cost me about half as much.
Not sure what you want to spend but you should check these guys out for price/selection first

RXeckless

iTrader: (5)

With the 8's DSC I'd say yes! Never lost the back end once with the Star Spec's. The jury is still out on the 7 with zero traction control and the Yokohama AD08, they don't call me 360ricky for nothing.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

SlickRick!