Questions for Mazda
 

Could all members come up with a questions that you would like MAZDA AUSTRALIA to answer for us at the National meet in October .

Then we could choose a spokesperson to ask these questions and hopefully get them answered .

What do you guys think of this idea .??

I FOR ONE HAVE QUITE A FEW QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ADDRESSED ;)

B...free
michael

First question.....

Without using the word "profiterring" why is our RX-8 60% more expensive than the same car in Japan & lesser equipped.....???

Muffled words of "Bullshit, cough, cough" recommended if they try feeding the import duty story on us....

Michael

I doubt Mazda Australia will have anyone there with the authority to answer a barrage of questions.

Timbo can correct me on this but their support of the event does not extend to making someone available for that kind of thing.

(I wonder why?? ;) :D )

However, I would be interested to see what kind of questions you guys have. I am happy to draw up a log of queries and submit them properly to MA. You never know, we treat with them in a professional manner and we might just get a professional response.

In my experience, aggressive ambushes usually yield a lot more heat than light (unless you already know the answer to the question of course and someone else is judging the respondent's fate ;) ).

I guess what I'm saying is: do you just want to make some MA minion squirm for 30 minutes or do you have genuine questions that need genuine answers?

RX8 owners fall into the category that the RX8 belongs in - class and sophistication. We do not need Mazda Australia to classify the RX8 club members as anything below of that what we should be. Just because some may believe money = power, that does not give them the right to demand and undermine.

Professionalism is the key, after all, most of us are professionals, when you want a matter to be handled, you have to treat others in a way that they will then want to assist and having anything to do with you :)

I agree with Dave, an official statement on behalf of everyone in writing would be a good way to go about it.

I have to agree with Revolver. Ambush questions rarely elicit anything more than a W.I.G. (Warm Inner Glow) from the questioner. The Mazda person(s) at your meet is/are likely to be from the P.R. department. They probably look at this forum, too, and if they suspect they are going to be set up they could treat your event with ignore.

You're never going to get an answer on pricing that will satisfy you. You might get answers to technical questions which do not require the company to divulge what it might consider its intellectual property or indeed product development directions - and while some of us might have opinions on what is or is not critical or important, Mazda is ultimately the arbiter.

Look at it from Mazda's point of view: to them, we look pretty much the same as fans who write about their favourite pop stars or movie stars. Remember that the word "fan" is a contraction of "fanatic", and you might understand that they're a bit cautious. It's a balancing act for them; they want us to keep on being enthusiastic, because they want us to choose a Mazda next time around.

I'm not a Mazda apologist, but as someone who manufactures and markets a product one of the considerations on pricing is "is it competitive in the marketplace?". To a certain extent, you charge what the market can bear. There are of course many other considerations. The Japanese car makers have always used the local market for base load, and have manipulated an artificial situation where it is difficult and expensive for owners to hang onto cars for more than a few years. There are surely compensatory factors in place there in respect to pricing. The Australian market is small, but has high infrastructure costs, so prices on maintenance intensive products like cars will be proportionately higher than say in North America.

In terms of mechanical and design questions, once again it is a balancing act in delivering a product to market. In criticizing engineering decisions, you are pitting yourself against a legion of highly qualified and experienced automotive engineers with a background of decades of experience. As MissRx8 says, most of us are professionals. How do we react when well-meaning amateurs tell us how we should do our jobs?

I don't believe there will be anyone with authority from Mazda at the Nats, but if there is, or to anyone from Mazda that's there, I'm sure everyone will be polite given the support they are making. To do otherwise would be bad form.

Hear hear..

I want to have a great time at the Nats.. I have enough of this sort of stuff when I work.. David's approach is fair, professional and probably the most productive way to get a good outcome for all sides.. On a personal level I am very happy with my car, perhaps a little less happy with the predelivery section of my dealer and I would me more interested in finding our more about the future RX-8..

well said revolver, missrx8 and labrat ;)

im sure 99.99% of jap car owners wouldnt be surprised that the jap cars are actually cheaper in jap land.....
just like our commwhores... no one wants one here, and they are cheap as chips, but the japs loves them, and they are dear over there :eek:
maybe look at the singaporan's rx8 prices... that'd make you feel better :p

Youre the man i had in mind to represent us , there no need to grill anyone on the day , but a list of well thought out relevant questions could be given to Mazda for them to answer at a more opportune time .

No one wants to hijack and waste their time at the meet but put forward legitamete Questions about the RX8 THAT TO MY MIND HAVE NEVER BEEN ANSWERED PROPERLY .


B...free
michael

But in all seriousness now... what kind of questions do you really want to ask mazda?

Out of curiosity, with your previous cars, did u go and ask them questions?

Guys if the same mark up from the domestic model was applied through out the Mazda Australia range, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. However its not & like the RX-7 got the crazy 90% mark up, the RX-8 has followed suit with the 60% mark up.

Apologies if this doesn't sit well with some but just imagine if the same 8% - 12% mark that the M2 - M3 - M6 - Premacy - etc get was applied to the RX-8. Wouldn't many of us be happier if we had to pay $40k to get it on the road rather than $65k.

Done in a respectful manor, I dont feel asking the question of "why" would be deemed unprofessional. It should be seen as a fair question....

Another question could be......

When will the 15B engine be expected to make production. Will the series-III RX-8 get it as standard or an option.....???

REgards

Why do Australian RX8 ONLY GET 1 oil cooler when our American colleagues get 2 knowing the importance in oil cooling our cars , our extremes in temperature are similar to the US so why the difference .?

Why were early adoptees of the RX8 ALLOWED TO USE SYNTHETHIC OIL IN THEIR CARS and not the recommended Mazda mineral oil that took 6 months to reach our shores ?

Why was the power supposedly dropped back to 177kw from the advertised original of 184 kw ?

Why wasnt a buy back program put in place similar to the one in the US , were Mazda came clean as to the cars lower power issues .?

These are but a few of the questions i would like answered .

As an owner i feel you have the right to ask relevant questions of the product you paid for , i have owned 24 cars from various car manufacturers and have mostly been satisfied with them , none of these companies tried to keep me in the dark and feed me BS AS MUCH AS MAZDA . :mad:

B...free
michael

L&L, correct me if I've been reading you wrong. Over the time you've had the 8, it seems you've had a number of gripes with the car and with MA. If you are as dissatisfied with the car as much as your posts lead us to believe why not cut your losses, reduce your depreciation loss, sell and buy the Aston Martin you've always told us you'll get.

Mate, you whine about the 8 and MA more than a woman does about getting a bloke to help with the dishes.

Yes i do have a love hate relationship with this car :D , its like a bloody mistress it can be o so bloody good :D and at the same time be a pain in the ass .

The inconsistency with the cars performance and its tempermental nature does frustate me at times :eek: , but i want this car to be as good as it could have been if Mazda had not initially fucked up on the small stuff :mad: ,also i dont quit easily on my buying decisions .

Theres no way i will buy the Aston until a few model years have gone by i do not wish to be the test pilot for a car worth big dollars :eek: also the vantage convertible wont be released for another 2 years .

I AM A REALIST I CAN SEE THE GOOD POINTS OF THIS CAR HOWEVER I ALSO SEE THE WEAKNESSES AND I TRY NOT TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO THEM .Just because its my car doesnt mean i should not be critical of it . :p

B...free
michael

I'd suggest you're not comparing like with like. Marketing any product has a number of hard points but some loom larger than others depending upon the competition. The Mazda 2 and 3 for example are sold in an enormously price sensitive segment of the car market. However, the RX8, like the RX7, as a hero flagship type car is less price sensitive. It also has very little competition in the market - i.e. it is the only rotary powered car in the world (on sale new) and has a number of other individual features (suicide doors, the seating in a coupe body-shape, etc). It is also a very successful overall package (as witnessed by awards like Wheels COTy, etc). All of those things make it easier for MA to bump up the mark-up, knowing that it will find a ready market.

Now, I'd be happy to have paid less for the car. Hell, I wish my Sydney house was half the price I paid for it. But the reality is, as labrat said, that sellers will charge what they can get away with.

As for asking questions about it, I agree it can be done in a respectful manner but I don't think the Nats is the place to carp about our cars - the idea of the event is to celebrate our mutual enthusiasm for the car. We want it to be a positive experience for all - not an AA meeting. I also don't think you're ever going to get a response you're happy with on pricing no matter where and how you ask that question - fact is, manufacturers will never just come out and lay their pricing decisions and reasoning behind them bare. There is no commercial incentive to do so.

I mean, every now and then I get someone querying my hourly rate. Now, I could point to all my overheads, what my competitors are charging, the many years of training that have got me to this point, the early years of starvation while gaining expertise, my proven ability, the fact that the average successful developer or businessman would run rings around my annual income, etc, etc, etc but you know what? I don't bother. If people cannot see the value in what they're buying, I see little point in a sales pitch (of course I'm also forbidden to tout for business, which is a restriction peculiar to my branch of the legal profession).

In my view, the same applies to the car you're buying - it is either of value to you or it isn't. Knowing why it is priced the way it is isn't going to make much difference to your eventual purchasing decision - depending on the answer it will just make you feel a bit happier that you got a bargain or upset that you're paying a premium for the experience.

I think some of those are worth getting answers to. Some are less a concern to me (e.g. the power difference - has there ever been an honest claim for any car??? :rolleyes: ). Have you tried putting them in writing and following up until you get an answer? The squeaky wheel often gets the oil.

I believe when the RX7 was for sale brand new here it was about $90,000?? Did the rx7 have have 2 oil coolers etc? As for the fact the RX8 doesnt come wit a turbo in comparision to the RX7 - wasnt there hell of a problems wit the turbo 7? So their argument being this car shouldnt have the problems that the 7 had. Am not 100% sure so dont bite my head off if im wrong - especially you Lock :) I know you had a 7 before.

Doesnt every country have different policies when it comes to the build of the car and engine? Perfect example would be the sunroof. In USA it was a standard option for the 2003-2004 models, but here it wasnt due to safety regulations as such. I dont think those models in USA had better pillers and body structure than our 8s did, but our regulations varied. So now they claim here the 2005 model is built well for a sunroof.


Plus, am not very sure if the prices of the other mazdas are marked up as much as the rx8. But import taxes and shipping costs to Australia may vary a fair bit from those of to USA. Also overhead costs of maintaining rotaries and/or purchasing the parts n stuff could be more dear for Mazda here. Now, also when comparing a mazda 3 markeup to an rx8... well we both know which car has a better reputation and such, so its just like when you go to Myer to buy a wallet - 2 wallets both are 100% genuine leather, yet 1 costs $50 the other costs $250. So one brand is a smaller name, and the more dearer 1 is Armani. If you are going to whinge about the cost of buying the car - I wonder how much you'll whinge when you start filling it up wit the gold priced petrol!

Some of the technical questions lock mentions could be good - specially the oil 1, because after all 99% of 8 owners seem to sometimes have the problem relating to it.

I now have a SERIES 3 RX 7 in the family it belongs to my 17 year old son :D , but i never have owned a twin turbo RX7 MYSELF :D

Dont worry i dont bite heads :p , there are much nicer softer (female ) spots to nibble on :D

B...free
michael

All Aussie delivery series-6 (92-95) plus series-7 (96-98) RX-7's had twin coolers as standard. Some lower spec JDM RX-7's got a single cooler. Mazda Australia would be giving RX-8 buyers the single cooler to save money. Mazda Japan would invoice them perhaps $400 lower & across several thousand cars, that starts to add up

As for different policies on build of the car, if you look from an international perspective, Australia is the most unreasonable of any westernised country. We are seen as the little kid on the block that tries too hard to impress by making up ridiculous regulations that all the other big players just laugh at. As a result we miss out on many varieties of cars with no end in sight for the pig headed beaurocrats self justification of our screwy regulations. Mazda may have simply done a nip & tuck on the angles of a piece of metal to meet these silly regs then allowed them to stay on all version around the globe as it didn't change any compliance issue for the more reasonable countries

Import duties & taxes apply across the board & dont single out individual cars. The $50 vs $250 analegy is understandable but my arguement is you can get the $250 wallet for $175 in the shop across the road & the $250 seller need to know that the buying public are aware of this & are not impressed with the tactics of "selling it for what they can get" (read, profiterring).

As for the petrol issue........ My Cosmo has 3-rotor's & 2-turbo's. My RX-7 has 2-rotors & 2-turbo's & the Luce has has 2-rotors & 1-turbo, the recently aquired 800SP has 6-cylinders & 1-supercharger so I can assure you that the real issue is "Value for money" not "money"

Also, its great to read your posts & without appearing sexist, I do like to read a womens perspectives on these (mans world) issues.......

REgards

I totally understand, like i said im not 100% sure, and I'm quite open to learning new things about cars :D

Also agree that Australia does have some strange policies when it comes to importing etc.

The cosmo is a sweet car :D (We have just a plain regular 929)

Neways, I personally am just skeptical as to how many "clear" answers you guys will get. Its a bit hard to find someone who actually knows what they are talking about sometimes in these circumstances, plus sometimes they just dont want to tell the public certain things :confused:

And thnx for your comment DMRH :)

Ta, Kall.

Whatever DMRH said ^^

Let's all move to the US...and buy Hondas.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....5029858254&p=0

:eek: :eek: :eek: wtf....? why would you want to move to the US? even though there is nothing wrong with hondas.... my EK is still going strong :D

Michael, I'm not sure what this exerciseproves, but I'll give you my thoughts

Quite different driving conditions, especially due to road congestion in the US, and the heat-related failures there -- even with two coolers -- seem to support this further. Any heat-related failures in Australia? Not that I am aware of. But we should all keep an eye on this, as it may seem to be a weakness.

(groan!) Do we have to go through this again? OK, let's make it simple. Here are the rules:
1. Any oil is better than no oil -- if you are running low, use the best oil that is
closest to the recommended viscosity in the handbook.
2. Pre-Renesis rotary engines are best lubricated using mineral oils because of the material used in their seals
3. The Renesis has different rotary seals which can tolerate synthetic oils
4. Mazda released its own rotary oil, with advice reflecting the above. At the same time, and prior to the release of the 8, there were and are, plenty of alternative mineral-based oils suitable for rotaries.

OK, this is a contentious one. I was a pre-order buyer, placing my order in later Feb 2003. While I had read magazine reports in respect of the power claim sourced from overseas, the reality is that Mazda Australia released nothing officially claiming the 184Kw output figure. That was not the case in some other markets, notably North America. I also have to say that when I spoke to my dealer around late June 2003 he specifically mentioned to me that the power was down slightly relative to early magazine articles. In my case -- and in the case of all Australian buyers, I think we were informed. In over two years on this forum I've not seen any other Australian owner bring forward evidence that Mazda was responsible for any deceptive conduct on this issue. But if there is, let's see it......

1. See previous answer
2. The laws in Australia are entirely different to the US, therefore speak to your local MP

Absolutely agree with you 100% on this, but you need to have all the facts and supporting evidence lined up first. As to other manufacturers, I reckon Mazda is no better and no worse; the only real experience I had with a real dud was VW with an early Golf GTI that I had, that clearly had a manufacturing defect in the cylinder head. It was a complete pain, they were total bastards to deal with, and it settled favourably....eventually. But, over 20 years' later I am still hesitant to buy another VW. And you hear of people with similar experiences with every marque.

If my car has 177kW at the flywheel, why does it only dyno 113kW?

That's the only question I want answered!

Doesnt the dyno show the kw at the rear? and the rx8 is 177kw at engine?? Most 8s dynod came around about 110-120kw or so didnt they? But if you have larger air intake that should increase it more right??