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I just returned from Courtesy Henderson after three and a half hours in the same car I drove up in and thought the stroy might be of interest to anyone considering purchasing there. Worked with a salesman that was pretty ok, his initial numbers were way high and started with some kind of a lease. When I asked about overall price, he was including the "market value" adjustment BS. I immediately let him know there was no way I was going over sticker as a starting point and the lease deal was unattractive. He didn't even counter regarding the over sticker stuff so that was out of the way. I had a trade and they initially low balled that, but agreed to my low ball counter (my own fault for getting caught up in the moment...kelly trade in value is 10600 and I was setteling for 8000 but I didn't realize it untill I got home. p.s. I owe about 6500 on the trade). The new numbers were better but still high and at 72 months, I said 60 months max, and a lower number, but it meant an additional substantial downpayment. After going the rounds of payments "up to" a agreed to the 450-475 range. Salesguy dissappears again. We arrived at 479 for 60, +3000 down +my car. Sticker was 31900 for MT TP NAV. Total deal at this point is at 31223.52 still a healthy profit for the dealer based on the invoice postings on this site, in my head I knew I was at 31+ something, so I knew I was in the ball park. I pay my deposit, they take the plates off my car and I wait.
After a long delay, I meet the financing guy and start signing papers for the trade and such. Then we come to the extended warranty, and he quotes an increase of 30 or so dollars a month over my 479 payment for the duration of the 72 month loan. All halt, a $31223.52 deal just ballooned to $36,119.29 for a car stickering at $31,900, or sticker +$4219! I know I agreed to a 60 month term @ 2.9 from my credit union so the finance guy, who was a pretty good guy, gets the sales guy and manager. They swear it was 72 and this is such a good deal... I stick to my guns. Then I get the "you cost me a sale" and some additional acusatory language about changing the deal. I replied that I was clear about the 60, I ran the estimated math I had been doing that brought the car to 31k+ and confirmed that in their presence with the finance guy. The manager responded that nobody gets one of those cars without his added markup. I respond that I don't need to pay the extra to adopt the car early. Then I get the "its $4000 more there $10000 more out east no deal would be better" (which I know isn't accurate). Then I get, "you agreed to sticker." I corrected him, because I said "I wouldn't pay over sticker", I certainly would go under but I didn't need to say that. Finally the manager says "My guy doesn't lie, you agreed to 72 month and it cost me another sale". This pissed me off, a misunderstanding I can forgive, forgetting I can forgive, calling me a liar iw way over the line. I confirmed that he lost a sale, mine, because I don't ever plan on buying a car from Courtesy again ( I purchased my last car at another Courtesy lot). I got my deposit refund, I'll be watching my account, back and left with my car that had markings on the wind sheild and plates in the front seat.
Well I know that is long. If your buying from Courtesy, just watch your numbers, bring your own calculator, and watch for changes in the deal as you move through the paperwork. Maybe it was an honest misunderstaning, failed communication, or forgetfullness, but then again I would just watch carefully.
The original deal as I understood it (based on $479 over 60 at 2.9% + $3000 + trade equity less invoice pricing from this site) would have netted Courtesy over $2200 for a quick 3.5 hour sale + my undervaluing my trade by $2600. Instead they wanted an additional $4200+ to make in excess of $6400+ (in addition to my screw up with the trade).
I feel good that I didn't get so swept up in the moment or fall for the tactics designed to make me eat an extra $4200+ and a bad trade (even though I wasn't aware of the bad trade at the time). I also feel stupid for even getting that far without having a good Kelly number for my trade, but I got caught up in the moment and emotion for the 8 was strong, but no so strong as to go $4k + over sticker.
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Just an FYI, I wrote that as soon as I returned and I might have been a bit hot about being called a liar, but I should know that is probably just a closing tactic. My problem again may have been due to a misunderstaning, misscommunication, or forgetting by the sales guy. I understand their job is to eek out every cent of profit possible, and I am sure someone else will get the car on the dealer's terms, and if anyone want's it on those terms, then that is good for everyone.
All in all, if you can get a deel you feel is good there, then more power to you. Just beware, the car is so smooth, so beautiful, and so sweet that it can put a spell on you during the buying process. I almost 8 it, but it was more than my appetite could handle.
Yea, I plan to try another dealer, unfortunately as the manager pointed out they "the other lot in Vegas and I won't get a better deal locally".
If I really want the car, I'll have to go out of the local market to get it. Though I am having second thoughts since I'll still have to deal with the local dealership for maintenance since the car is so exotic.
Maybe I need thicker skin, but this experience has soured me on Mazda in this locality even though this car has me nearly totally seduced.
Yeap. Sounds like those guys gave you the standsard bake and switch right out of the dealers handbook.
As a rule of thumb, never dicuss monthly payment or trade in values until you have agreed on the price of the base vehicle. There are a lot of websites out there that provides guidelines on how to negotiate with dealers and how to recognize their schemes. Study up before you hit the sales lots.
I agree with rotarynews' advice. In short, you can vastly simplify your buying process (and deny the dealer opportunity to play the profit "shell game") by selling your old car yourself beforehand (no trade-in value negotiations) and arranging your own financing. You'll spend less time on the deal, and the only variables will be purchase price and the cost of the extended warranty.
I actually had a similar experience when i went to the dealership on Sahara. I then went to the Peoples Mazda and they wouldn't budge on the $2500 mark-up, so i made a couple calls to some dealers in California and ended up getting a deal for $1000 off MSRP ($28,625 down from $29,625 for Winning Blue, MT, Sport, Appearance Package and rear spoiler) which i'm very happy with. I had to drive the car 300 miles home but now half the break-in is over with, so it wasn't a big deal.
From my experience with the courtesy dealership i'll never be buying from them.
Wining Blue-MT W/ Sport Package, Appearance Package and Rear Spoiler
Racing Beat Sway Bars, KW Coilovers, Slotted Rotors, SS Brake and Clutch Lines
Thanks to everyone that responded and to all those that viewed the pages without responding. Now that a full day has gone by, I feel like I dodged a bad bullet.
I still am infactuated with the 8 and I'll probably begin a wider search in CA or UT in a short while.
My concern now is that if the service folks are anywhere near as "courteous" as the sales folks, owning the 8 in LV could be difficult and frustrating if it ever needed service or was part of a maintence recall.
I'll have to think this one through. My luck with unique or short production run cars has been terrible, but then again those were GM cars of the 80s and 90s. And while this isn't a short run, its still exotic and my impression of the local dealership already isn't favorable. If only the 8 was unattractive, undesireable, and goofy, then I could easily resist this urge, oh wait I described the Chevy SSR.