Turblown

We have these in stock and ready to ship. Offering free shipping for Rx8club members. We've already used these on several engines and they work very well. Good compression numbers and haven't been able to break one yet. Great for a turbo build. http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=260

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Turblown

Just tested a few engines with these seals that have been broken in and driven hard for 5000+ miles. Perfect compression results. These seals are definitely the way to go!

In stock and ready to ship!

MarkAngelo

I'm in the market for these seals to finish a rebuild project. How much boost for the 5000+ miles... is the engine still going strong? I want these seals for the safety of not messing up my housings in the event we blow the engine while tuning... Makes future rebuilds technically less pricey. (hopefuly).

However, the goal is to make a reliable power plant utilizing these seals, so what would you say about the longevity of these seals on a boosted engine.. seeing about 10-13psi boost daily... 11:1 A/F and well managed coolant temps..

Thanks,
Mark

olddragger

Goopy has a good rep. BUT, i would strongly suggest that you have the rotors machined to take the taller FD apex seals. The taller seals will increase the strenght in that area substancially.
NO STREET APEX SEAL IS DETONATION PROOF ------ NONE! Some are a little more resistant.
Do the supporting engine mods if you are planning on pushing over 300rwhp ( which it sounds like you are).
Turbo systems have several critical componets---dont forget about them too.

Turblown

Mark,

I've got engines with over 12k miles ( daily driven turbo cars).. Engine should last awhile with the above condition. I have detonated a few without issue( would have blown on OEM seals). If you were to stay in the power long enough and not pull out while detonating you would probably break the corner seals next, and possibly dent a rotor. I've seen it before, irons needed to be ground, but housings were untouched.

Turblown

I haven't seen a need yet to do the taller Rx-7 seals. Its not a bad idea if you are planning on going past the 500rwhp mark, but for 95% of guys on here the stock height seals will work just fine. There are plenty of seals that don't break from detonation, just go venture on the Rx-7. I personally kept leaning out an engine one time unitll it detonated so bad the boost guage would snap from 23psi back to 0 and back and so fast it was hard to see. Engine lasted another 30k after that( daily driven extremely hard @ 23psi on pump gas with meth..)

MarkAngelo

Thanks for sharing your experience. This makes me want to take this route. I believe in innovation. Very promising results you've had so far.

So Goopy seals will be my choice when I do build an engine. So, as far as machining the irons... Can any machine shop do that for a good price? I'm just trying to figure out what else I should do.. From my experience with boosting traditional piston engines, my first logical upgrade on a stock "block" were some strong ARP head studs...

Keeping price low on a rebuild.. New housings, fresh machined irons, goopy seals and fresh or used corner seals and used stock springs.. is that ok? Or do you recommend changing out the corner seals and stock springs as well for new ones..?

Best wishes,
Mark

olddragger

are you taking about the PTS seals? The ALS seals have good reviews but I dont think they make them for the rx8?
My point is no apex seal is strong enough to have no damage from detonation, they may not break ( I didnt say they would), but a rebuild will still be needed, even if they have just bent.
Some hard seals have some reports on housing wear--others dont so who really knows?
PTS have reports of cat scratchs but no real compression issues....sooo dont know again.
But, i still stand by milling the rotors for the taller seals, I mean why not? if you are going to the trouble and expense of building the engine for FI, spend a little extra to get a stronger base.
I like goopys--i like how they do business too.
Now yall see a lot more than I do so I highly respect yalls opinion and I listen.
I also like the ceramic and oreo cream pie! On man---- I love oreo cream pie.

MarkAngelo

Thanks for your input. In my case, I'm just trying to squeeze out as much as I can with as little changes to the stock renesis as possible.

I managed to run 21psi reliably on a daily driven 4G63T engine by adding a multi layer head gasket and ARP Head studs..

I'm not trying to build a knock or detonation resistant Renesis.. Just want to see what I can do to make it more reliable for daily 10-13 psi boost.

What kind of benefits can I see with taller seals? Right now, I'm pretty set on Goopys until I can find some affordable ceramic 2mm seals.. However, if I do get the rotors machined, is that a one time thing and I can run those 3mm ceramic seals? Can Any machine shop machine for taller 3mm seals? How much do you think that will run per rotor?

Thanks,
Mark

olddragger

they are not 3 mm seals. they are 2 mm seals.
team 8 posted an analogy once that explains it well.
"Think of putting a post in the ground. Now if you put and 8 ft pole in a hole that is 2 feet deep versus one that is 4 foot deep , which one will be easier to rock back and forth?"
The deeper rx7 seals will not "rock" back and forth as much as the more shallow ones.
Mill the rotors one time only.
you better be building a knock/detonation resistant rx8 engine! Anything you can do to lessen that chance.... Rotary engines do not handle detonation well! Maybe you need to research this a little more?
10-13 psi boost on a 10:1 compression renasis engine is about the max boost I have heard for a daily driver? For specialty cars I have heard of 15-16 so far?
Good luck man.

MarkAngelo

Thanks OD.. What's your name by the way.. Mine is Mark, Nice to meet you on here. thanks for your informative posts in response to my questions..

Ok, you make a good point. If I am going to build a Renesis engine for boost, might as well do it right. Ok. I'm going to start planning my spare motor build. I've read that it's not recommended to machine rx8 rotors for 3mm because it's difficult to machine this properly.. So you're better off with using 2mm seal options.. From what I've read about Goopy seals, they're resistant to the harsh boost environment, and act as a safety net, and if you blow the engine with Goopy seals, you basically just have to replace pull the engine out and replace the Apex seals and you're good to go. I'd really hate to have to buy new housings every time we blow an engine...

Wait a minute though.. are Ceramic seals practically knock and detonation proof?? I'm trying to figure out what Goopy seals are made out of, because they sound so promising.. no wear on the housings and can withstand some abuse, but what are they made out of? Carbon? Ceramic?

Thanks again,
Mark

olddragger

Hey Mark--I am Denny.
The turbo rx7 apex seals are taller--not wider. They are still 2 mm seals. I have them in my engine. The rotor has to be milled to accept the taller seals and the rx8 rotor can except this.
Goopy seals have a good rep but I am not sure they are if they are better than the oem turbo rx7 ones. But I really like Goopy. I think they are an honest company and if they claim something I think they can be believed. Call them up--they will speak with you.
Ceramics are good--not really needed for most people. But they do have good qualities about them. They will break if exposed to detonation but are stronger than stock. If they do break they usually take a lot of stuff with them--sometimes even the turbo.
PTS are unbreakable seals, but they will bend with detonation which will result in needing a rebuild anyway. They will not take a housing with them though. There are some reports that street driven cars have some issues with them like low compression. But other reports they they work find. I dont know of anyone on this forum running them. They are interesting.
Best bet is to do whatever you can to avoid detonation in the first place.

d walker

the value of ceramics is not durability or detonation resistance, its light weight and low wear.

I use and sell the Goopy seals, and in fact have chosen them to provide the engines for my RX-8's this season. The real benefit I notice with the Goopy seals is they seat incredibly fast and develop great compression numbers in a very short time.

In my turbo car I have seriously overboosted (blown control hose) my 13BREW S6 motor and the seals have held. The most impressive thing is the failure mode is pretty benign- they will warp rather than break which saves housings.

MarkAngelo

Thanks D w... I think I'm pretty set on Goopy seals now. I did email them before and they were nice and informative on the email. With the reports I've heard so far, I think I'll go for Goopy seals once I'm ready to do the spare engine project. I don't intend on blowing my new stock engine, but it will be nice to have an engine to swap, in the unfortunate event that I blow the engine.

I guess it doesn't really matter what the material is, just as long as I know it bends instead of breaking into pieces.

I wonder why Mazda didn't use similar materials as Goopy and PTS in the first place...?

d walker

Its all about sacrifices. The Goopy seals will likely only last say, 50k miles, where the OEM seasl will last a very long time assuming good maintenance. Also understand that Mazda has no real motivation to change thier seals, they serve the purpose of lasting a long time under normal use and thats what they care about.

olddragger

here is a picture of the difference between the 2. rx7 versus rx8. These are not the goopys.
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/5...seal0108tj.jpg

Turblown

Bump!

williams99

Its all about sacrifices. The Goopy seals will likely only last say, 50k miles, where the OEM seasl will last a very long time assuming good maintenance.

warren(silver-roxy-8)

What are the Goopy seals made of?

lordagrabah

winninium

Turblown

Thats proprietary information.

tim69

Hi
You are offering free shipping for RX8 club members would that include us in the UK, if you did send them for free how long for delivery to me.
Thanks