MazdaPi

iTrader: (1)

So I have been having the worst time with clutches and flywheels and transmissions. I will not relay my horror story here but will keep it simple and to the point.

I have a stage 1 hd clutch with a lightweight flywheel (&counterweight) installed. Also my transmission just got repaired so it's all good. New drive-shaft and input shaft and everything else.

This is the second time this clutch has been installed. The first time after I had it installed the pedal felt incredibly light and it had difficulty shifting when moving at lower gear speeds. It was impossible to shift in the cold and when the rpms got higher the clutch pedal would actually get sucked to the floor.

I called the manufacturer and talked to some other clutch manufacturers (exedy) and they said for most stage 1 clutches you need a spacer or a shim. So I went back in and installed a spacer after measuring the width of the "fingers" of the springs and reinstalled it also double checking that the flywheel width was similar too.

Now that it's re-installed it seems to be engaging slightly better but it's still super light and I am still having the issue of the clutch pedal sinking to the floor at high rpms.

At one point I reinstalled the oem clutch and it was much stiffer and felt like an actual clutch pedal and I loved it. I would have thought a stage 1 hd clutch would be MORE stiff not less stiff.

My question boils down to...

How stiff should my clutch pedal be with the set up I am currently running (Keeping in mind it's literally feather light) ? Is it possible I spaced it wrong? Is it just that the dampening springs in the pressure plate are too strong?

04Green

iTrader: (1)

I think you are on the right track with the shims. and the oem clutch. It is really enough for a naturally aspirated engine.

The issue is the internals on the clutch. at rpm, there are weights that help the clutch clamp. if they are in the wrong position, they help it release. Installed, you want the tips of the fingers to be 1/10 inch further out than the edges. This is for a clutch that looks like the OEM.

The issue with spacers is more related to the flywheel than the clutch in my experience. my oem clutch needs them with my pro lite flywheel.

Posted From RX8Club.com Android App

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Oh look, another Exedy Stage 1 clutch problem...


It's a known problem with that clutch on the RX-8. I went through 2 of them, one lasting 20k on the same driving that got my 90k on the OEM clutch (easier, actually, since i didn't have any autocross on it), the 2nd lasted 100 miles. There were rattling noises or clutch engagement/disengagement problems no matter where i adjusted the pedal. When I pulled the starter to check on it at the 100 mile mark, the bellhousing was already stuffed with shredded clutch material. Shimming and stuff didn't work. I went back to OEM and everything fit and worked perfectly the first time without problems.

Here is a semi-recent thread on the problems from quite a few of us, but there are more threads around. The problem is the clutch, not the installation. https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...clutch-244381/

More:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...e-1-hd-253431/
https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...oblems-250365/

MazdaPi

iTrader: (1)

Alright so if I go back to oem with lightweight flywheel I should still consider shimming it? What distance am I measuring to determine the size of the shim? The difference in flywheel thickness?
-D

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The lightweight flywheel shouldn't need shimming with an OE clutch. The shimming is the inconsistent patchwork 'solution' with the clutch side.

04Green

iTrader: (1)

re-read my post, you need the correct crown on the fingers.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

interesting,

is this a series 11 issue? as i have had two exedy stage 1 clutches and both have been flawless. first one came out at ~25, mile. was changing tranny, thought i would do it while i was in there.. i think that clutch is might be still running around in brettus car. the second one is still going stong after 50k miles with the last 1k or so just being track..

both were with the prolite flywheel..

i know i have been gone for a while, is this a new thing?

and my pedal feel is the same as stock.

beers

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's been an issue for 3 years or so? Maybe 4.

Part of the problem is that there are plenty of people with your experience: No problem at all.

It's an inconsistency in the clutch, possibly in faulty QA that allows clutches of different specs to be produced under the same item number or something. Some clutches are fine, some need shimming to work, and some never work at all regardless of what you do to them. Some the failure happens at the disc, some at the release bearing. The problems show up on new flywheels and resurfaced flywheels. They show up with shop installed and with DIY installs.

Exedy is refusing to acknowledge the problem, and even some big vendors have trouble recognizing it. Some others have stopped selling the clutch because of it's inconsistency, since Exedy doesn't honor the warranty on a premature failure.

The 'excuse' given is that is an installation problem. If it was really an installation problem, It's remarkable that both of my Stage 1 clutches failed prematurely but the OEM clutch I installed still hasn't (in the new owner's hands). Similar stories and results from other owners, as noted in the first thread linked in my last post.

So yeah, you MIGHT be fine with one, but frankly since it's $20ish more for an OEM clutch that lasts 90k+, has more torque capacity than the N/A engine can produce, and fits perfect every time... why take the gamble?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

thanks,

makes sense as i have been gone for about 4 years.

is it just a series 11 issue though or all?

beers

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I do not know of it occuring on Series2, however the Series2 flywheel and clutch is the same to my knowledge, which would implicate that the risk exists there too. I don't know if it is actually identical or not though.

MazdaPi

iTrader: (1)

Mine is a series II and it definitely occurs. I'm going back to OEM. and I will be contacting Exedy and trying to get a return. I dunno how it'll go though.
Thanks for the help. I've wasted to much time and money on something that should be simple. So frustrating.

skydemon

iTrader: (2)

Soooo I do not do a lot of posting but, I come here a lot and get lots of help. I thought I would share this since this spacer issue has been going on for a while and I did not really see an answer. Here is my story......I changed my oem clutch at 80k not because the clutch was bad but because the throw out bearing exploded. I put in a stage 1 hd, what can I say it was on sale and even though I dont need it, I liked it and was probably going to replace it with the same, until I saw all these posts about spacers and failing. I bought this, 10803AHD, years ago and it only lasted 70k, which I guess isnt bad but I really expected more. So anyways I called exedy because there was some conflicting info about the HD and the regular stage 1 on the website I was looking at. The first thing the rep said is, there is no HD series 1 for the RX-8. I said not according to the catalog. He said there "may" have been some mix up on that and that the 10803 clutch is not for RX-8's and told me the 10803 is 3mm's shorter the RX-8's clutch. I asked if thats why everyone on here is talking about spacers, he said probably. Even on their wesbite it still calls for the 10803 for the RX-8, then he gave me a part number for the RX-8 stage 1 that does not even come up on their site and apparently Google has never even heard of it. So not sure why some work and some fail, even the shop Im having put this in says they use them all the time with no problem. In short if you installed a 10803A or HD it is probably the wrong clutch. Paul at MazMart has the skinny and he can get the correct part, mine is on the way.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Was it less than $317?

Exedy OEM - Replacement Clutch Kit - Lightning Motorsports - Made with bits of real lightning, so you know it's good !

otherwise did you intentionally tell us there's a different part number without posting it?

skydemon

iTrader: (2)

LOL well originally I was gonna throw a cool link in there but it doesnt come up any where! It was not less that $317.00 more like 400, but it is a stage 1. I put MazMart in there because thats who exedy told me to call they have the info, but if you can dig something up, the part number is 10812, per exedy.

Requiem-X8

when you replace your Clutch, have you considered replacing the Master / Slave Cylinders as well?