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Front Suspension creak and occasional clunk Much Worse than I thought!
First a little background. I have an 05 with 124,xxx miles on it. Suspension mods are as follows: Koni sport struts, progress tech springs, progress tech FSB.
I have owned the car since October 2007. It had around 30k miles on it when I got it. I have never been in an accident, never clipped a curb or done anything else that I can attribute this damage to.
When I replaced my tires (last month) i noticed uneven wear that lead me to believe that an alignment was in order. On the way out of the alignment shops lot the front suspension made an audible clunk when i applied the brakes for the first time. I wrote that off to the car settling after the alignment. from that day on the car made a creaking noise and I would occasionally hear a clunk when braking or turning. The noises sounded very similar to what I heard when my last set of end links needed to be replaced. I ordered a set of Racing Beat sealed end links figuring that would fix the problem. I completely removed reapplied white lithium grease and replaced the sway bar bushings when I replaced the end links. Went for a drive and the noises were still evident.
I got back under the car looking for something loose and found this.
(Note, all the pictures are from the bottom on the right side from behind the front suspension)
Close up of the damage at the top of the subframe.
Close up of the crack at the bottom of the subframe.
As you can see the sub frame was almost completely compromised. Clearly the car is not safe to drive and will be parked until I get a new subframe in. I cant help but think how much worse this could have ended!
Has anyone seen anything like this before? I imagine the sub frame can be replaced, but I am worried about whatever caused this. I would have to replace the sub frame just to break another because I can't find the real cause.
Thanks for taking the time to read, all comments and suggestions welcome.
Last edited by Solidtrance; 08-09-2015 at 10:04 PM.
Holy cow! That's got a pucker factor of about 9.5. I just checked mine because I track the **** out of it, and fortunately it's fine.
Personally I would kick some butt if a shop didn't notice that when they did the alignment. Inexcusable not to see that or mention it. I wouldn't be going back to that shop...
Wow thats crazy. I had some knocking from my front end a few weeks back. I changed my front sway bar links a few days ago bc I realized they had some play in them. Noise is all gone.
But wow glad my problem wasn't subframe related. I didn't even think to look there.
That looks like an old wound that was welded, at least from how I am looking at the pictures. I cannot see how the metal would go back together. And, the shinny pieces are in the middle, where a weld broke.
That looks like an old wound that was welded, at least from how I am looking at the pictures. I cannot see how the metal would go back together. And, the shinny pieces are in the middle, where a weld broke.
Wow. That will definitely not buff out.
It was hard to get good pictures. I didn't see any evidence of welding when I was under the car. I have owned the car for a long time and there have not been any accidents/repairs during that time. A broken previous weld is possible, but I think it just failed. I did live in Chicago for 4 years, so that accounts for the corrosion.
I will get more detailed pictures up when I get all this off the car. I am now trying to determine the cost/benefits of new vice used components. Right now I am thinking all new hardware for sure. I am on the fence about new or used control arms and the subframe itself. It is m understanding that new control arms will come with the bushings already pressed in which is a plus. The difference in price is a little over a grand. I will be doing the work in my garage and not having to press the bearings is a definite plus. I am fortunate to have an extra car so I am in no rush at this point. Also about to send my oldest child off to College so with that and work I have limited time to make progress.
Just for fun I am attaching some price comparisons I came up with for the parts.
I picked up a subframe locally this weekend. Spent Sat and Sun cleaning, busting the corrosion off and painting to be sure it will last. I have a few more spots to touch up and then I will be able to start swapping it out. I have a few days off this week so I am hopeful progress will be quick. I hope to have it back together for my next autoX on Sunday. Pending serious hardware removal issues I should be good. I will get a chance to have a good look at the motor mounts and all the other bushings to inspect for damage. I don't anticipate anything, but you never know....
Fire hammers, Impact guns, breaker bar, cheater bar, a can of break free, and a whole lot of swearing. You'll be alright
I'm sure all will be present in abundance!
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
Dang, this is a first. And I have seen a few subframes that have taken some serious hits, including mine.
This was a first for me too. Thats part of the reason I didn't find it faster, I never though to look at the subframe. I kept looking at my sway bar and its bushings. I am certain at this point that the alignment place either broke it or pulled on the camber bolt with enough force to significantly weaken the metal. I guess this should be enough motivation to buy the stuff and learn how to do a basic alignment myself, although all the hardware will be in tip top condition by the end of the week hopefully.
Right now the garage looks like a train wreck. There is corosion EVERYWHERE. I have a growing pile of broken bolts that will require drilling out at a minimum. I just ordered all the hardware and lca bushings to the tune of almost 300 bucks through Mazdaspeed Motorsports.
I think I will replace a few more things since they will need to be done eventually and I have the whole front torn apart. Right now I am thinking:
Radiator and hoses
thermostat I already purchased
belts
motor mounts
Clutch (maybe)
Currently, everything is off the subframe except:
LCA Camber and Caster bolts (nuts are off but the bolt is frozen solid)
Power Steering Rack
No kidding, this job sucks. Thank god I still love this car, otherwise there might have been a fire....
No kidding, this job sucks. Thank god I still love this car, otherwise there might have been a fire....
You are a man of extreme intestinal fortitude.
While you're in there beating out the LCA bolts, consider replacing the suspension bushings too. Then you can use fire for fun getting the old bushing out.
While you're in there beating out the LCA bolts, consider replacing the suspension bushings too. Then you can use fire for fun getting the old bushing out.
LCA's will be replaced and the new ones come with all the bushings. At this point I don't even really need to get them off. I can just disconnect at the knuckle and move on. The LCA's, bushings and subframe are all being replaced so its not worth much trouble.
I was bummed to miss a local autoX this weekend. Missing events should keep the motivation up, but honestly I am in no rush. I just couldn't bring myself to slap some sticky rubber on my wifes Mazdaspeed6 for the event. Maybe next month if I am still working on this project, which seems very likely at this point.
Last edited by Solidtrance; 08-31-2015 at 09:26 AM.
Well, the subframe is off. The LCA's are in fact seized and would need to be cut off. Not worth the trouble. Waiting on the new LCA's and attaching hardware and I should be able to finish up. I am hopeful the car will be back on the road soon. The subframe drop and swap was not easy and I finally had to phone a friend to help. Once we had two sets of hands and eyes it went pretty quick. Almost there....
LCA's and hardware will be here tomorrow, gotta love mazdaspeed motorsports quick shipping! If I get motivated I should be good to go by the weekend. It will be good to have the car back in working order.
I will take some pics of how it looks now that the subframe is off the car. Its worse than these original pictures look now that I can see all the damage from every angle. This could have ended in a serious wreck.
Last edited by Solidtrance; 09-01-2015 at 04:55 PM.
Don't forget to show them to the twits that did the alignment without noticing (or mentioning). They should give your money back or at least give you a free alignment (if you can trust them to do that right!).
Don't forget to show them to the twits that did the alignment without noticing (or mentioning). They should give your money back or at least give you a free alignment (if you can trust them to do that right!).
I'll get more pics up tonight. I plan on doing some work when I get home.
I also plan to bring the old subframe to the shop so I can show them the damage. Last time I was there (specifically because of this noise) I spent a while talking with the manager. He owned an MS6 years ago and was drooling on mine when I had it there so I got a good chance to talk with him. It will be interesting to see how he reacts. I don't expect anything tangible from him, but some concern for the lack of attention to detail would be nice. I hope he has the techs look at the damage so they can understand just how bad this situation could have been.....
08-09-2015, 01:32 PM
