SARRAS

Recently I swapped my standard suspension over to Tein H and Koni Sports - which worked out fine as far as it goes (you US guys would NOT believe how much we pay for Konis in Australia). The Tein H are not so stiff they rattle your teeth, there's still a 'ride' there, but the double drop effect that you get with the Konis means the car is way too low for practical use where I live. I was expecting 0.8" drop rear, 1" front - I got at least half that again and its not practical for me - especially with 3 or more adult persons in the car.

Why this 'double drop' effect with the Konis occurs no one seems to be sure - some on here seem to think its the low pressure nature of Konis - this could be true as the thing that triggered all this was a shot shocky at the rear and certainly my car did seem to be sagging at the back before this change - but then lots of RX-8s seem to go rear down over time. Others (including my bemused mechanic) swear that the car's ride height is solely determined by the springs - the shocks have nothing to do with it - which means the Konis must have a different position on the spring perches than factory.

Whatever the reason, the phenomenon is known, and others have experienced it here. So what to do with my car?

Logically, since the Konis cost more than 5 times the price of the springs, the thing would be to keep the Konis and source a set of standard ride height 'sport' springs. That would give a minor drop (the Konis) and a better ride/handling combination. Or even raised height springs, giving a better ride/handling combination and at the standard ground clearance because of the Konis. Problem is no such things exist for the RX-8 - only lowering springs.

Enter Lovells - an aftermarket spring maker here in outer Sydney. They now have my factory springs and are custom making a set of 30% stiffer sport springs for me to standard ride height specifications. And if that's not enough they are willing to go to 25mm overheight as well, so its going to be an interesting experiment. One way or another I'll get what I want - a stiffer ride that doesn't bottom out under load, with a decent ground clearance and a level ride height, even if it takes two or three sets to get there.

So the thing is this - since I'm going through this process, I'm wondering if anyone else has a similar need or desire. There is the possibility that once Lovells have the specs right and locked into their computers they could do a small run of the standard ride height sport springs for those wanting to use the Konis in particular. Let me know if this is of interest to you - if there's enough to pursue it I can relay the info back to the marketing department who are handling the R&D on this for me.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

I've noticed this! There's no way that I'd lower my ride height considering the poor state of Michigan road surfaces. That means no coilovers, though Racing Beat's setup is closest to stock height if I really get the bug to do it. Your approach is interesting. I followed a different tactic and decided to stiffen the body instead of the springs.

See here: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...50#post3536450

Putting the GTSPEC 6-point and lower front braces had an effect similar to, but I think better than, going to higher spring rates, but retaining the stock springs.

SARRAS

I've been looking at the Gspec braces - interesting that you quote the WEIGHT of them - they are quite heavy I suppose. I have the Corksport 4 way in the front and their 2 way in the boot - not that it does much in there I don't think as the rear of the Oz spec cars already have the spare tyre mount - which functions pretty much as any brace would.

The thing about the Corskport is that its so light - the front 4 way would barely weight 3 KG I should think and is certainly lighter but stiffer than the original. My opinion of the effect of the braces was similar to your findings but its actually heightened my impression that the factory springs are a little soft. Hence I wanted something a bit stronger like the Tein H.

Lovells have the first set in production now and they're aiming at standard ride height and 20% stiffer - it may take me month yet to get them delivered and fitted, but I'll certainly come back here with pics and overall results.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

when I was looking into shocks, it seemed that the koni's drop the car verrrrrry slightly, only about 1/2 an inch tops, probably less. You sure there isn't something else going on?

SARRAS

Yes that's correct - but that means 1.3" drop rear and 1.5" drop front when used in conjunction with the Tein H-Tech - which was too much for my liking in the area where I live. what I'm aiming for is the classic 0.4-0.5" drop total - or as we say here - 20mm.

This is the sort of drop you get with 'Sport' versions of cars that also come in 'family' suspension tune - eg the BMW and their M-Sport versions or Audi and their 'S' spec versions. Cars like that are not 'dumped' as such but they are 20-25mm lower than the family wagon and typically 10-20% stiffer in the spring rates. And they can get over the speed bumps in Haberfield!

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

The weight of the GTSPEC upper brace + lower front brace came to 14 lbs (~6 kg), but you're also removing the weight of the stock brace of 5 lbs (2 kg), so there's a net gain of 4 kg ... well worth it, IMHO. If you're only talking about the upper brace that's more like 2 kg weight gain. (Easily compensated by using a Osyssey 925 MJT glass mat battery, 9 kg lighter than stock). I suspect the 6-pt alone is considerably more effective than the 4-pt and with the lower front brace as well, I find the spring rates quite on the stiff side, though opinions vary as to what "stiff" really means. However this setup just begs for a stiffer roll bar which now feels soft by comparison. Still, stiffer, but not low-riding, springs add to the pool of choices for suspension tuning.

SARRAS

I did that once before with a sedan - basically factory springs but stiffer bushes and a bigger roll bar and braces - that turned out very nicely - it was a Magna - what you call a Diamante in Northern America.

I may yet go the GTSPEC upper brace - it has one major advantage over the Corksport - with the latter you have to remove the whole thing to do any oil changes or most other work on the engine. But then again I do get to keep the engine cover - which is not possible with the GTSPEC I think?

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

0.5" = 12.7 mm, 20 mm = 0.8"

Yeah, if it's even possible, to keep the engine cover with the GTSPEC 6-pt, you'd have to hack it up pretty badly. But why cover such a gorgeous piece of metalwork?

SARRAS

0.5" = 12.7 mm, 20 mm = 0.8"

Whoops sorry my memory of the inches system is getting rusty! 20mm or 0.8" is what I meant.

Interestingly enough I just yesterday went to a Track day with two other friends in stock standard RX-8s and although there were tyre variations between mine and theirs - and both the other two being on completely stock suspensions - there's virtually NIL handling advantage to the lowered suspension as it is now - the 3 cars were evenly paced and none could get in front of the other on the circuit. So the end result is that the lowering springs are pretty much just a 'cosmetic' situation on the RX-8 - they do nothing much to add to the already excellent handling and high grip levels.

SARRAS

Okay after a REALLY long wait and a silly amount of money they are here! The new springs are the blue ones and the black are the factory standards - they go onto the car the day after tomorrow....

SARRAS

BTW for reference the left picture is the car when bought at standard ride height and 44K klms. The middle one is just before the shock absorber blew - typical saggy bum RX-8 look, and the right pic is the car on the Tein H-Techs and Konis

SARRAS

Okay update - they're on and they're fantastic! As well as a few days of suburban running I took the car out of town on the weekend and did some freeway work and a mad dash down the Berowa to Brooklyn road and back up again (think twisty mountain hills) The car feels very tight and has its dancing back - wheras with the Teins it was flatter, deader - and strangely enough - its quieter on the bumpy bits than with the Teins. No crashthrough at all, no clearance problems - just a sporty, joyful ride. Pix below - compared to a standard RX-8 my friend has, its about 0.5cm lower than stock front and rear - due yet to the Konis for sure. I reckon that with Bilsteins there'd be nothing in it for ride height.

RX_4+4

Hey Sarras,
you may have moved on by now but I wanted to sign in just to ask what you have now in shock and springs on the 8? As this was 2010 when written and now 2016.

I also ask because my 2004 finally needs shocks and springs, or one or the other but I might as well do both while in there. Suggestions?

SBGarage

What do coilovers have to do with lowering your car or not? Ohlins can run at stock height any day... ONE benefit is ride height adjustability, sure, but better damping, and spring setup, and allowing it all to be tuned through pre-load etc, which then requires you to have height adjustability to reach the correct static ride height. A lot of people completely miss the point of coilovers

SARRAS

Hi and Hello - Yeah OLD Thread. I traded the car about 18 months ago at 80,000 klms, on a new Holden Commodore SSV Redline, so the RX-8 is a done issue. It remained with the custom Lovells springs (standard ride height and 30 percent stiffer) and it remained on the slightly lower ride height because of the Konis. It does appear that the Konis for the RX-8 have a slightly lower perch height on the struts - hence the slight lowering. A friend of mine also purchased a set of the same Lovells Springs but with Bilstein shocks - so her car was the touch stiffer in the springs but the ride height was stock standard. Both cars were very happy to drive and my Friends car now has about 120,000 klms on it with no suspension issues.


If you want to go the Lovells route let me know and I will dig out the old emails of what product number they used etc. Its in their computer system now so the order process shouldn't be too difficult

RX_4+4

@sarras ~~ I had a feeling that you had moved on with the 8 but wanted to check. I need to do something quick as I cannot stand the heavy thumps now that the shocks are gone. From what I gather, in this thread, it takes some time as they are hand made or more custom if you will. Think I will ask and research a bit more before I do buy, but have to get something soon. Thank you.


@SBGarage~~ I am just not a suspension guy, so much of the terminology is lost on me. All I really know is I want things to be as stiff or more, the height to be the same, and for them to work. I feel (don't know) that I need both to make things right again. I am willing to do springs and shocks at one time simply because I am already doing the job. However, I don't want to adjust anything. I want to fix it and forget it.

And OMG! have ya seen the price of the Ohlins? For a hair more I can buy a newer rx 8 without shock troubles. The fix cannot be a greater cost than a used car.

SARRAS

ALL aftermarket springs that are stiffer will also lower the car. You only have the choice of custom made springs or coil-overs.

RX_4+4

Thanks for that info. I will guess same is true no matter what country. well dang. I guess I now have to research coil-overs.
This is a whole new world to me as every rx 7 I owned and every other car I had I sold or wrecked before I needed to do any of this. I guess my old age is both good and bad.

RX_4+4

Great one. I was thinking some springs and shocks on all corners should be like 200 bucks and NOT drop the height of my car that is already low enough! seems like I am one of the rare few.

Steve Dallas

It sounds like you just need new shocks. Several companies make economical OEM replacements. Your best option at the stock ride height is Bilstein B6 (HD) shocks. They are more expensive at ~$450 per set, but they are the best OEM type shocks you can buy in that price range, and they will last longer than the car.

RX_4+4

Thanks for that Steve. So the thought process really would be that the shocks go out and need replacement much more soon over the coils? Thanks.

I recall my stiffness and handling around corners was so much better and now a curve too fast and Im not as comfortable.

Steve Dallas

Many spring manufacturers offer million mile warranties. You can expect your springs to last through around 4 sets of shocks, on average.

SBGarage

Does no one tune their cars around here? I didn't know people view the RX8 as essentially a commuter/Civic. Are these cars really that worthless? We have Miata customers put $2000 suspension into their valueless NA Miatas all day long because of the PERFORMANCE advantages. Isn't that the entire point of why people are on here? Maybe the RX8 and RX7 crowds are fundamentally different. The RX8 is a potent platform but no one here seems to realize that... everyone seems to be interested in simply keeping their car running for daily commuting. The point of coilovers is the pursuit of maxim grip, not infinitely adjusting the car every weekend. If you're simply tootling around the streets, I agree you don't need expensive suspension.

SBGarage

Coilovers and suspension mods are not a need, they're a want. The goal is more grip, not maintenance items. Any Midas service center will happily throw in replacement shocks for you once your stock ones are leaking oil... we remove stock shocks from brand new cars with zero miles on them to replace with high quality coilovers so our cars go faster around corners... not because suspension in general wears over time. Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of this post, it seemed like it was geared towards performance use

40w8

I'm with you, man.

My 07 Gt was at 13.5 rear and 14.25 front when new.

I just put Bilstein B12 kit fro AJUSA on, and now it looks like it'll be 14 inches height all around.

It's a very good setup to get rid of clunk, and gives great control.

So I improved car from factory, and slightly raised it.