Why do I have high negative fuel trims?
04-23-2014, 12:31 PM
#76
Did some runs on the stock map, it did it on the last 3rd gear pull.... 
Honestly... the only thing I'm noticing a difference between pull that it smokes and pulls that it don't, is the MAF G/S reading... On pulls it smokes the G/S is lower than on pulls without smoke...
Honestly... the only thing I'm noticing a difference between pull that it smokes and pulls that it don't, is the MAF G/S reading... On pulls it smokes the G/S is lower than on pulls without smoke...
04-23-2014, 12:59 PM
#77
Driving my unreliable rx8
Thread Starter
Have you considered pulling your 02 sensor and seeing what it looks like?
If it is getting covered in oil then burned off it might be coked over.
If it is getting covered in oil then burned off it might be coked over.
04-24-2014, 04:58 AM
#79
I'll pull them as soon as the sun rises sir. Sorry had over night inventory so took a power nap yesterday.
To add on... What ever is wrong with the car, it's getting worse, and fast...
Anything over 6k rpms and I'm shooting smoke, with the negative STFT...Forgot the cobb at home but I really feel it has something to do with wither the MAF or O2 sensor... (Gut feeling?)
I dropped it into 3rd gear and just held it @7k, within seconds it started missing (could feel the car shaking, see video for sound). I then did it in neutral, same thing. After that it would barely idle, I had to keep my foot on the pedal not to stall out. I also noticed both times while holding the rpms, the AFR's were pegged @11.1 (max lowest reading). Hesselrode lives near me, I asked him if I could borrow his MAF and O2 today and see what happens... Hopefully we can meet up today and try that.. I know his MAF and O2 are new. I assume mine are original still.
If you watch this video (not mine), between 0:56-1:05 this is exactly what I heard reving and the had the same amount/color smoke coming out.
__EDIT__
Forgot to add CEL came on... 2 were for cat/air pump (I have neither) and P0301 was pending.
__EDIT EDIT__ I'm also burning gas at a alarming rate... almost 1/2 a tank and only 50 miles on it.... Oil level holding.
To add on... What ever is wrong with the car, it's getting worse, and fast...
Anything over 6k rpms and I'm shooting smoke, with the negative STFT...Forgot the cobb at home but I really feel it has something to do with wither the MAF or O2 sensor... (Gut feeling?)
I dropped it into 3rd gear and just held it @7k, within seconds it started missing (could feel the car shaking, see video for sound). I then did it in neutral, same thing. After that it would barely idle, I had to keep my foot on the pedal not to stall out. I also noticed both times while holding the rpms, the AFR's were pegged @11.1 (max lowest reading). Hesselrode lives near me, I asked him if I could borrow his MAF and O2 today and see what happens... Hopefully we can meet up today and try that.. I know his MAF and O2 are new. I assume mine are original still.
If you watch this video (not mine), between 0:56-1:05 this is exactly what I heard reving and the had the same amount/color smoke coming out.
__EDIT__
Forgot to add CEL came on... 2 were for cat/air pump (I have neither) and P0301 was pending.
__EDIT EDIT__ I'm also burning gas at a alarming rate... almost 1/2 a tank and only 50 miles on it.... Oil level holding.
Last edited by 1.3_LittersOfFurry; 04-24-2014 at 05:24 AM.
04-24-2014, 03:48 PM
#87
If I had to pick a rotor with a rich problem it would be R1 based on the plugs 
( fixed to reflect pictures )
No real easy way to check the injectors except pull them and get them checked....
What RPM does it happen..that can maybe help figure out which one is sticking open
If your STFT are pegging rich then it is likely fuel....wouldn't expect the O2 sensor to react like that with oil all over it
Also if the oil control rings were leaking...they usually would smoke at startup...oil pressure is high then till it warms up..and low RPM's make for more oil per rotation than higher RPM,s
If it was me...I would pull the sec and P2 injectors and either swap out another set....or get them cleaned and tested
Does it start normally?
( fixed to reflect pictures )No real easy way to check the injectors except pull them and get them checked....
What RPM does it happen..that can maybe help figure out which one is sticking open
If your STFT are pegging rich then it is likely fuel....wouldn't expect the O2 sensor to react like that with oil all over it
Also if the oil control rings were leaking...they usually would smoke at startup...oil pressure is high then till it warms up..and low RPM's make for more oil per rotation than higher RPM,s
If it was me...I would pull the sec and P2 injectors and either swap out another set....or get them cleaned and tested
Does it start normally?
Last edited by dannobre; 04-24-2014 at 04:05 PM.
04-24-2014, 04:04 PM
#88
Actually... lol R1... Looks like I uploaded them backwards... The phone really fought me to get them up. I'll edit the posts... Then I'll edit this post and add a video I took along with all the other crap I tried...
-----------------------
Okay.. I'm going to try to give every last detail of today's events. (BTW yesterday it was starting fine)
Pulled the plugs, cleaned them, reset ecu, started the car. Car started quickly, but idle was bad (reset probably), but within... 1-2mins it was blowing smoke and stft were -22. I let it run for a while and it cleared itself up. Took it for a spin. No change, sometimes smoke, sometimes nothing.
Got a friend who is a manager at autozone, tried a new maf... Got mixed results.. At first it seemed like nothing changed, I was down to a quarter tank so I stopped at walmart and threw a bottle of techron fuel system cleaner crap into it for ***** and giggles. Hit the loop again. Ran flawlessly. Now really stumped, I hit the loop one more time to really thrash it. First 2 pulls great, I then pushed the clutch in and reved it a few times to 7k, on the 3rd rev, it sounded flooded (missing) pass 6k. Dropped it into 6th, it threw some smoke then cleared up. Did 2 more 3rd gear pulls to 8k and ran perfect.
So I decide it's not the maf for sure and go return the new one and put my old one back, car is now idling ruff again, but ecu reset. I go get gas at a shell station instead of my normal spot, thinking it could be some dirty gas at the chevron I normally go to. I added another bottle of techron for the hell of it and went go ride around in the streets, all low rpms and she ran okay till the end of the drive. I was holding the rpms at 3k in 3rd gear and the engine stumbled. STFT shot to -22 and smoke was coming out the back. It cleared itself up right before I got to my street.
Let it idle for awhile Took this video and now calling it a day. Need sleep.
Other things...
Starts quickly, cold/hot but doesn't always want to run.
I burned a tank of gas in about 110 miles, although very aggressive driving.
I burned a little less than 1/2qt oil
Problem is progressing, car runs worse now than yesterday.
If it comes down to getting the injectors checked, that can't happen till Tuesday at the soonest.
Problem started in the +6k 1st/2nd gear, now just look at video.. lol
Thanks again for everyone's time, help and ideas.
-----------------------
Okay.. I'm going to try to give every last detail of today's events. (BTW yesterday it was starting fine)
Pulled the plugs, cleaned them, reset ecu, started the car. Car started quickly, but idle was bad (reset probably), but within... 1-2mins it was blowing smoke and stft were -22. I let it run for a while and it cleared itself up. Took it for a spin. No change, sometimes smoke, sometimes nothing.
Got a friend who is a manager at autozone, tried a new maf... Got mixed results.. At first it seemed like nothing changed, I was down to a quarter tank so I stopped at walmart and threw a bottle of techron fuel system cleaner crap into it for ***** and giggles. Hit the loop again. Ran flawlessly. Now really stumped, I hit the loop one more time to really thrash it. First 2 pulls great, I then pushed the clutch in and reved it a few times to 7k, on the 3rd rev, it sounded flooded (missing) pass 6k. Dropped it into 6th, it threw some smoke then cleared up. Did 2 more 3rd gear pulls to 8k and ran perfect.
So I decide it's not the maf for sure and go return the new one and put my old one back, car is now idling ruff again, but ecu reset. I go get gas at a shell station instead of my normal spot, thinking it could be some dirty gas at the chevron I normally go to. I added another bottle of techron for the hell of it and went go ride around in the streets, all low rpms and she ran okay till the end of the drive. I was holding the rpms at 3k in 3rd gear and the engine stumbled. STFT shot to -22 and smoke was coming out the back. It cleared itself up right before I got to my street.
Let it idle for awhile Took this video and now calling it a day. Need sleep.
Other things...
Starts quickly, cold/hot but doesn't always want to run.
I burned a tank of gas in about 110 miles, although very aggressive driving.
I burned a little less than 1/2qt oil
Problem is progressing, car runs worse now than yesterday.
If it comes down to getting the injectors checked, that can't happen till Tuesday at the soonest.
Problem started in the +6k 1st/2nd gear, now just look at video.. lol
Thanks again for everyone's time, help and ideas.
Last edited by 1.3_LittersOfFurry; 04-24-2014 at 04:48 PM.
04-24-2014, 10:57 PM
#89
A non-running fuel pressure check would also be needed to assess whether an injector is leaking in the static mode. Did you perform an ignition coil test yet?
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-...ight=Coil+test
.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-...ight=Coil+test
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 04-24-2014 at 11:01 PM.
04-25-2014, 08:26 AM
#91
Another question.. Could I remove the injectors and cleaned them with a ultrasonic cleaner I have from harbor freight? If so, what chemical should I use to clean them?
-- the car started great this morning, better than it ever had in my ownership. But almost instantly began to struggle to run. Ltft - 8 STFT - 6. Drove it really slow to work, - 3k rpms, by the ttime I got to work ltft were 0,stft - /+1
-- the car started great this morning, better than it ever had in my ownership. But almost instantly began to struggle to run. Ltft - 8 STFT - 6. Drove it really slow to work, - 3k rpms, by the ttime I got to work ltft were 0,stft - /+1
04-25-2014, 09:27 AM
#92
Ultrasonics without cleaning the baskets and having a way to cycle the injectors might make things worse.
If you can't get them cleaned properly and checked on a flow bench you are better to try a different set
If you weren't in a different country and such a long way away...I'd send you a set to try
If you can't get them cleaned properly and checked on a flow bench you are better to try a different set
If you weren't in a different country and such a long way away...I'd send you a set to try
04-25-2014, 03:07 PM
#95
Hey Team, You race your Rx-8 correct? What is your average oil consumption?
Checked my oil level when I got home and it was right below half way mark, seems odd, but I was driving it very hard yesterday...
Drove home fine, seems like everything is peachy provided I don't go above 3k rpms.... No high negative fuel trims, no smoke.
I called a few shops around town this morning, can't find a shop that cleans injectors... I'll ask in my regions section and see if I can find a place.
Waiting for a friend to get off and drop me off the coil tester.
Checked my oil level when I got home and it was right below half way mark, seems odd, but I was driving it very hard yesterday...
Drove home fine, seems like everything is peachy provided I don't go above 3k rpms.... No high negative fuel trims, no smoke.
I called a few shops around town this morning, can't find a shop that cleans injectors... I'll ask in my regions section and see if I can find a place.
Waiting for a friend to get off and drop me off the coil tester.
08-03-2014, 12:03 AM
#98
Driving my unreliable rx8
Thread Starter
Here is the wiring that I used origionaly posted by ROT8 The color on the exposed wires was really faded when I cut back the tape it was very clear that I had a green and blue wire corssed. Fuel Rail 1 (two injectors) Both leads for this fuel rail come off of the main harness together. Front rotor injector wire color is light-green and red. (Front Primary 1) Front injector Wire lead has White colored tape Rear rotor injector wire color is light-green and black. (Rear Primary 1) Rear injector Wire lead has Tan colored tape. Fuel Rail 2 (four injectors) The two center (the middle) injector wires come off the harness together and split. Front side of the middle split has Yellow colored tape. Rear side of the middle split has Green colored tape. The two end (front and rear) injector wires come off the harness separately and have no colored tape. The front injector wire is Green and Red. (Front Secondary) The front rotor middle injector wire is Black and Blue. (Front Primary 2) The rear rotor middle injector wire is White and Green. (Rear Primary 2) The rear injector wire is Black and Blue. (Rear Secondary)
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