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What to do about dealerships not honoring service bulletins?
Whodo I call if my local dealerships arent honoring the service bulletins Im bringing into them?
Im tryingto finallyget the brake squealfix and two ofthem in this area saythey havent heard of any bulletin andcannot perform any work thatI pull off the Internet unless the dealership itself recieves the information straight from Mazda.
Then theres one otherdealership that is aware of the bulletin but is trying to screwme over and make me pay for anew set of brakes! Theysay the squeal is occurring b/c the brakes are bad now since mycar has over 20000 miles on it and under visual inspection the brakes appear worn but that is justbullshit. Itold that service advisor that my brakes havehad this problem since the cars had 3000miles on it and then showedhim that the new version of the brakes service bulletin whichindicates allcars under a certain VIN range w/the squeal get new brakes. He ignored this and againrepeated to me that Ihave too many miles onmy car by now and that my brakes look worn so they will not perform the free replacement.
Theresgot to be some wayto override this bs
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I hate to say it, but if your brake pads are worn to the point that they will need replacement within the next few months, I agree with the dealer that you should have to pay for the new pads. The fact that they have been squealing since 3000 miles is totally irrelevant. A TSB is in no way intended to provide compensation to the owner for the length of time he/she dealt with the inconvenience/annoyance. If your pads are worn out, you are responsible for replacing them, not Mazda. The replacement brake pads should solve your brake squeal problem, and that should make you happy.
Now if your pads have more than 30% life remaining, I believe you have a legitimate reason to be pissed. If this is the case, then nevermind what I said above. Instead, there are two things you can try. The first thing is to contact Mazda North American customer assistance and explain the situation as Snap-On mentioned. I actually had to do this to get the dealership to honor the TSB--they originally wanted me to pay for the pads just like in your situation. However in my case the brake pads still had about 75% life remaining. The only other thing you can do is to try a different dealership. Good luck.
I know what the TSB says, but come on, some things shouldn't have to be spelled out. Take an extreme example: say you have 1% life left on your front brake pads and they are squealing. You think Mazda should have to eat the warranty cost to provide you with a brand new set of non-squealing pads, despite the fact that you'd have to buy new ones in a matter of days or weeks anyway? If you honestly think that is the way it should be, then it's no wonder those of us with legitimate complaints have so much trouble getting dealerships to honor the TSBs. The general public isn't supposed to have access to these documents, and this self-serving mentality is the primary reason. Keep in mind that these frivolous warranty claims hurt Mazda North America, and HELP the privately-owned dealerships.
You can also keep trying different dealers. Generally there is usually 1 or 2 decent dealers in a given area, with the other 16-20 being utter crap. Check the regional forums and figure out which ones are the good ones.
Some dealerships are known for sales service, some are known for vehicle service quality, takes a bit of hunting to find which ones are the right ones to take your baby too.
I know what the TSB says, but come on, some things shouldn't have to be spelled out. Take an extreme example: say you have 1% life left on your front brake pads and they are squealing. You think Mazda should have to eat the warranty cost to provide you with a brand new set of non-squealing pads, despite the fact that you'd have to buy new ones in a matter of days or weeks anyway? If you honestly think that is the way it should be, then it's no wonder those of us with legitimate complaints have so much trouble getting dealerships to honor the TSBs. The general public isn't supposed to have access to these documents, and this self-serving mentality is the primary reason. Keep in mind that these frivolous warranty claims hurt Mazda North America, and HELP the privately-owned dealerships.
I'd have to agree... a TSB is not a recall and the dealer only has to honor the TSB if there is a legit problem.
I tried calling Mazda NA and they are clueless about any TSB's or how their VIN numbers are formed. I finally had to show them the TSB and compare it directly to my VIN number to prove it. They thought that the constant numbers that are displayed on the VIN represented my VIN number so I fell outside the range.. Talk about dumb.
Mazda NA knows nothing, my dealership knows nothing.
It was one big headache.
I finally got my brake pads installed after I explained it to them.. Sad.
Buckeye - My brakes definitely haveplenty of life left in them. Theyregiving me this **** for the $$$$$.
And at anyrate this isnt only just about the brake TSBs. Ive had problems before getting other TSBs honored butusually found another dealer who would do them. Thistime Ive already tried 3 different dealerships
i am glad you guys started this thread, i have 6000 miles and my brakes are starting to squeal. what is the VIN range so i can see if i have one of the cars in question? there is a dealership i would like to give a hard time to lol.
I hate to say it, but if your brake pads are worn to the point that they will need replacement within the next few months, I agree with the dealer that you should have to pay for the new pads. The fact that they have been squealing since 3000 miles is totally irrelevant. A TSB is in no way intended to provide compensation to the owner for the length of time he/she dealt with the inconvenience/annoyance. If your pads are worn out, you are responsible for replacing them, not Mazda. The replacement brake pads should solve your brake squeal problem, and that should make you happy.
Now if your pads have more than 30% life remaining, I believe you have a legitimate reason to be pissed. If this is the case, then nevermind what I said above. Instead, there are two things you can try. The first thing is to contact Mazda North American customer assistance and explain the situation as Snap-On mentioned. I actually had to do this to get the dealership to honor the TSB--they originally wanted me to pay for the pads just like in your situation. However in my case the brake pads still had about 75% life remaining. The only other thing you can do is to try a different dealership. Good luck.
Must agree with the above. The TSB is not a recall, it's information supplied to the dealerships to make their diagnosis easier. If you can trust the dealership, gotta laugh on that statement, have them service the brakes, and when replaced, bite the bullet if they are significantly worn, but retain your old pads for comparison. Unless your exceptionally hard on the brakes, hard for me to believe their shot at 20,000 miles. Would make sense to do it yourself if possible, or at least check pad thickness.
I also find something unusual with the situation, because most dealerships would jump at the chance to change parts etc because they do get compensation from Mazda for parts and labor if legitimate.
Having been involved with Mazda after purchasing my '88 Turbo II new, which Mazda eventually bought back, I wouldn't trust them for 1 second. On my '89TII I then bought at dealers cost, they poured over $10,000 worth of parts into the car and was happy as a lark 'cause Mazda kept paying for parts plus the labor. Still have it though.
Good Luck
I tried calling Mazda NA and they are clueless about any TSB's or how their VIN numbers are formed.
You're right, Mazda customer assistance doesn't have access to the TSBs, but what they did for me was contact the service department and encourage them to contact Mazda service to learn more about the issue. Once the service department was aware of my complaint and had spoken with Mazda service, they agreed to replace my brake pads under warranty per the TSB.
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Buckeye - My brakes definitely haveplenty of life left in them. Theyregiving me this **** for the $$$$$.
Then you should definitely keep trying until you get someone to honor the TSB. Get Mazda customer assistance involved--this can only help. The part about the dealership giving you trouble so they can make money off you doesn't make sense to me. Dealerships get paid for warranty work by Mazda North America. They would love to have as much warranty work as possible. The only thing I can think of is that they are afraid that Mazda will NOT reimburse them for the replacement of your pads under warranty, and that they'll have to eat the cost. If this is the case, it seems that the dealership simply doesn't want to make an effort to understand what the TSB is all about and what is covered. This is where Mazda customer assistance can help--they should contact the service department and urge them to research the issue and perform the work as specified.
I know what the TSB says, but come on, some things shouldn't have to be spelled out. Take an extreme example: say you have 1% life left on your front brake pads and they are squealing. You think Mazda should have to eat the warranty cost to provide you with a brand new set of non-squealing pads, despite the fact that you'd have to buy new ones in a matter of days or weeks anyway? If you honestly think that is the way it should be, then it's no wonder those of us with legitimate complaints have so much trouble getting dealerships to honor the TSBs. The general public isn't supposed to have access to these documents, and this self-serving mentality is the primary reason. Keep in mind that these frivolous warranty claims hurt Mazda North America, and HELP the privately-owned dealerships.
I have to disagree. I'm just as opposed to people trying to get something for nothing as anyone else, but I don't think it applies in this case.
1 - The TSB is to help customers with squealing brakes. What's the difference if they're replaced at 5000 miles vs. 20,000? Why would someone who only suffered with a month's worth of squealing be more deserving of a set of brake pads than someone who suffered for a whole year? People had the problem for quite a while before the new pads were finally available. Why expect them to eat the cost simply because it took Mazda a while to come up with a fix while the customer continued to put miles on the vehicle? I think you have this one backwards.
2 - If the pads are warranted for 50,000 miles, a service life of 20,000 is warrantable in and of itself, unless abuse can be proven.
3 - AFAIK, TSBs are a matter of public record and aren't "secret" documents. Mazda doesn't need protection against people reading them. The protection is written into the TSB itself, which clearly defines what conditions are eligible.
I see nothing wrong with demanding a fix under the terms of the TSB, as long as one is not falsely inducing symptoms, such as doing something to make their brakes squeal just to get a new set of pads when they really weren't squealing on their own.
I see PLENTY wrong with a dealership who denies service because they haven't "seen" the TSB, or refuses to follow the instructions set forth in a TSB. They are either being dishonest or incompetent.
Nubo: I'm just stating my opinion on the matter, and I stand by what I said before. I totally respect that you have a different point of view. I'm not even sure if Mazda has an official stance on this issue. I've responded to some of the points you made:
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1 - The TSB is to help customers with squealing brakes. What's the difference if they're replaced at 5000 miles vs. 20,000?
And the TSB does just that--it solves the brake squealing problem. Brakes, clutches, and the like are items that wear over time and the customer is expected to pay for replacement when they are totally worn. If your brakes are just about shot, you are responsible for paying for new pads, whether they've been squealing or not. The new pads that you buy will solve the brake squeal problem.
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Why would someone who only suffered with a month's worth of squealing be more deserving of a set of brake pads than someone who suffered for a whole year? People had the problem for quite a while before the new pads were finally available. Why expect them to eat the cost simply because it took Mazda a while to come up with a fix while the customer continued to put miles on the vehicle? I think you have this one backwards.
As I said before, a TSB is in no way meant to compensate anybody for the length of time he/she spent with a problem, rather it is meant to provide an immediate fix for the problem. The person who has suffered a month's worth of squealing gets the pads replaced under warranty because he/she has plenty of brake life remaining, and therefore would not have purchased new pads for quite some time. The person who has suffered for much longer and has no brake pad life remaining would need to buy new pads anyway, so he/she is responsible for paying for the new pads. If I understand correctly, you believe this customer should get the pads replaced under warranty because they've "suffered" for a long time? This is the compensation issue I'm talking about--I believe it's irrelevant.
If you go back and read some of the other posts about the brake squeal TSB, you'll find that there are people who are actually waiting until their squealing pads are completely worn before asking the dealership to replace the pads per the TSB. I don't know about you, but I think this is unethical. If the customer didn't think the squeal was bad enough to warrant an earlier trip to the dealer, then why do they expect to get replacement pads for free?
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2 - If the pads are warranted for 50,000 miles, a service life of 20,000 is warrantable in and of itself, unless abuse can be proven.
Brake pads are warranted for 50,000 miles? Maybe from manufacturing defects, but to my knowledge the brake warranty does not cover wear from normal usage, let alone abuse. Unless you can prove that the pads had a manufacturing defect, you are responsible for replacing them whether they lasted 5,000 miles or 50,000 miles. This is akin to a tire warranty--it doesn't cover wear and tear unless accelerated by a defect.
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3 - AFAIK, TSBs are a matter of public record and aren't "secret" documents. Mazda doesn't need protection against people reading them. The protection is written into the TSB itself, which clearly defines what conditions are eligible.
I never said that TSBs were "secret" documents. What I said is true: the manufacturers do not intend for these documents to be readily accessible to consumers. Why? To minimize warranty costs associated with frivolous claims by greedy consumers (like the forum members who posted about exploiting this TSB to get free pads when their current pads are gone). The TSBs are a tool to help technicians diagnose and resolve problems, not to alert owners about every known problem with their cars. If a problem exists that the consumer NEEDS to know about, like a safety issue, a recall is issued.
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I see PLENTY wrong with a dealership who denies service because they haven't "seen" the TSB, or refuses to follow the instructions set forth in a TSB. They are either being dishonest or incompetent.
I completely agree. However, dealerships have always been expected to exercise judgement about what qualifies for a warranty repair and what doesn't. This case is no exception.
jk I didn't say that!)
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