u think I'm a new engine candidate?
02-02-2010, 09:45 AM
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u think I'm a new engine candidate?
Nov '03 Build date. 43k miles. Well maintained.
Been having hot start issues for the past few months. Car started up fine when its cold, warm starts would almost drain the battery. Replaced plugs, wires, coils. I never got the upgraded starter, as I never had any issues starting. When I replaced the plugs I noticed that it looked like the little bit that you can see of the rotors thru the spark plug holes had rust covering them. I didn't think anything of it.
The next day, car starts normally, and i hear pieces of my paralytic converter being flushed thru the exhaust. I get a CEL. I reluctantly take the car to the stealer cuz the service rep knows nothing of rotaries, plus I am out of my factory warranty.
Dealer tells me that they cannot continue to test until a new o2 sensor is installed (not covered) and new cat installed (covered). (thanks Mazmart for the sensor!)
I feel like I will be joining the new engine club very soon.
My theory is that I have coolant seal damage. I've noticed my coolant light come on and little bit of coolant on my driveway, combine that with the brown rotor faces, and the hot start issue. I feel like some debris (or an apex seal) was shot out of the exhaust port and damaged the catalyst.
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/1s...nt_damage.html
Thoughts?
Been having hot start issues for the past few months. Car started up fine when its cold, warm starts would almost drain the battery. Replaced plugs, wires, coils. I never got the upgraded starter, as I never had any issues starting. When I replaced the plugs I noticed that it looked like the little bit that you can see of the rotors thru the spark plug holes had rust covering them. I didn't think anything of it.
The next day, car starts normally, and i hear pieces of my paralytic converter being flushed thru the exhaust. I get a CEL. I reluctantly take the car to the stealer cuz the service rep knows nothing of rotaries, plus I am out of my factory warranty.
Dealer tells me that they cannot continue to test until a new o2 sensor is installed (not covered) and new cat installed (covered). (thanks Mazmart for the sensor!)
I feel like I will be joining the new engine club very soon.
My theory is that I have coolant seal damage. I've noticed my coolant light come on and little bit of coolant on my driveway, combine that with the brown rotor faces, and the hot start issue. I feel like some debris (or an apex seal) was shot out of the exhaust port and damaged the catalyst.
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/1s...nt_damage.html
Thoughts?
02-02-2010, 12:28 PM
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Yes, it is............. 8 years or 100k miles on the engine.
Not sure if the OP is headed that way or not from all that I read from his post.
Can't tell if you coolant light is just from overflow(being overfilled) or whether or not it's more serious?
The coolant sensor is known to go bad and requires the whole bottle be replaced or at least the bottle taken out and flushed really good.
The coolant on the ground bothers me though. How much and can you tell from where? Does your exhaust have a sweet smell?
How many times have you flooded your car and what was the reason you changed the coils, plugs, and wires? Was it more than just general maintenance?
You say you have not gotten the upgraded starter because you have no starting issues, but yet you have warm start issues enough to almost drain the battery.......well, that's a starting issue!
Not sure if the OP is headed that way or not from all that I read from his post.
Can't tell if you coolant light is just from overflow(being overfilled) or whether or not it's more serious?
The coolant sensor is known to go bad and requires the whole bottle be replaced or at least the bottle taken out and flushed really good.
The coolant on the ground bothers me though. How much and can you tell from where? Does your exhaust have a sweet smell?
How many times have you flooded your car and what was the reason you changed the coils, plugs, and wires? Was it more than just general maintenance?
You say you have not gotten the upgraded starter because you have no starting issues, but yet you have warm start issues enough to almost drain the battery.......well, that's a starting issue!
Last edited by Mazurfer; 02-02-2010 at 12:36 PM.
02-02-2010, 12:59 PM
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Yes, it is............. 8 years or 100k miles on the engine.
Not sure if the OP is headed that way or not from all that I read from his post.
Can't tell if you coolant light is just from overflow(being overfilled) or whether or not it's more serious?
The coolant sensor is known to go bad and requires the whole bottle be replaced or at least the bottle taken out and flushed really good.
The coolant on the ground bothers me though. How much and can you tell from where? Does your exhaust have a sweet smell?
How many times have you flooded your car and what was the reason you changed the coils, plugs, and wires? Was it more than just general maintenance?
You say you have not gotten the upgraded starter because you have no starting issues, but yet you have warm start issues enough to almost drain the battery.......well, that's a starting issue!
Not sure if the OP is headed that way or not from all that I read from his post.
Can't tell if you coolant light is just from overflow(being overfilled) or whether or not it's more serious?
The coolant sensor is known to go bad and requires the whole bottle be replaced or at least the bottle taken out and flushed really good.
The coolant on the ground bothers me though. How much and can you tell from where? Does your exhaust have a sweet smell?
How many times have you flooded your car and what was the reason you changed the coils, plugs, and wires? Was it more than just general maintenance?
You say you have not gotten the upgraded starter because you have no starting issues, but yet you have warm start issues enough to almost drain the battery.......well, that's a starting issue!
Thanks for that Mazurfer, the exhaust does smell on the sweet side. The car has been flooded 4 times. 3x by the dealer, and once by me as my coils were dead.
I replaced the plugs as the dealer claimed that they simply needed to be cleaned after the last flood. Wires were replaced about 10k ago under warranty as one of them had a short in it.
The hot start issue started happening after the "Engine Cranks, No Start" TSB was updated. The upgraded TSB doesnt include upgrading the starter. I think i missed the boat on that one.
02-04-2010, 01:23 AM
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I feel your pain
Hey, I just read your post and I was having the same issues as you minus the coolant leaks. I finaly took mine to dealership and they told me it was my battery and that I needed the upgraded starter, I told them I didn't see how that would only cause problems when it was warm so I would pick it up the next day. Before I could pick it up the next day I got a call saying they tried to move my car and it wouldn't start so they did a compression test and it was bad. I had to bring them oil change reciepts today and should have a new motor installed by next week. It seems like Mazda is really looking out for us with these cars.
Good Luck
Good Luck
02-04-2010, 12:27 PM
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I just got back from the dealer, dropped off the o2 sensor that I got from Mazmart. Dealer tells me that the car should be ready today as they replaced the catalytic converter already. Not sure why they are so confident that the cause of the issue is the cat & o2 sensor. Then again, why am I asking myself?! Service advisors typically dont know anything about the car they are giving service "advice" on.
02-04-2010, 12:35 PM
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the coolant is a bit trouble but it could just be a bad water pump.
have you looked to see where the coolant is coming from?
an apex seal wouldn't crack and shoot out of your Cat like you mentioned earlier. Odds are the cat broke, and it was the chunks of the cat that were bouncing around in there and came out of the exhaust.
Is there anyone in your neck of the woods who can do a compression test for you? That would be an easy way to tell if your engine is going South.
have you looked to see where the coolant is coming from?
an apex seal wouldn't crack and shoot out of your Cat like you mentioned earlier. Odds are the cat broke, and it was the chunks of the cat that were bouncing around in there and came out of the exhaust.
Is there anyone in your neck of the woods who can do a compression test for you? That would be an easy way to tell if your engine is going South.
02-04-2010, 01:39 PM
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the coolant is a bit trouble but it could just be a bad water pump.
have you looked to see where the coolant is coming from?
an apex seal wouldn't crack and shoot out of your Cat like you mentioned earlier. Odds are the cat broke, and it was the chunks of the cat that were bouncing around in there and came out of the exhaust.
Is there anyone in your neck of the woods who can do a compression test for you? That would be an easy way to tell if your engine is going South.
have you looked to see where the coolant is coming from?
an apex seal wouldn't crack and shoot out of your Cat like you mentioned earlier. Odds are the cat broke, and it was the chunks of the cat that were bouncing around in there and came out of the exhaust.
Is there anyone in your neck of the woods who can do a compression test for you? That would be an easy way to tell if your engine is going South.
Its at the dealer now, so they are gonna continue to test the car. They refused to continue testing as the cat & o2sensor were bad. I wont take the car back without a compression test. So far everyone on this board that has had hot-start issues has gotten a new engine.
an apex seal may not destroy the catalyst... what about excessive heat & carbon (or rust) buildup on the rotor faces? If it builds up enuff, then breaks off, passes thru exhaust?
02-04-2010, 02:51 PM
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you should look at pics from RX-8 engines that have been torn down for rebuild. they have a brownish look sometimes, it's normal.
Cats die due to excessive heat, leaning out the AFRs too much, from flooding, or poor ignition.
keep us posted.
Cats die due to excessive heat, leaning out the AFRs too much, from flooding, or poor ignition.
keep us posted.
02-04-2010, 04:14 PM
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Just got a call from Mazda...catalytic converter and o2 sensor in and reading correctly, car still giving hot start issue. Service ill-adviser says I may be looking at a new motor (i almost yelled TOLD YOU)
Rep says they are going by the TSB, blah blah blah... they gotta take pics, etc... I really hope they dont try denying me for having a REVI intake. I'd make them prove that an air filter caused an engine failure, then ask how many 04 engines have been replaced under warranty.
Rep says they are going by the TSB, blah blah blah... they gotta take pics, etc... I really hope they dont try denying me for having a REVI intake. I'd make them prove that an air filter caused an engine failure, then ask how many 04 engines have been replaced under warranty.
02-04-2010, 07:47 PM
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Remember this............They would have to prove that the REVI was the cause of engine failure!
Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
The REVI is one of the better designs(IMHO) and engineered for the RX8, so I wish them luck trying to play that card!
Keep us posted!
Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
The REVI is one of the better designs(IMHO) and engineered for the RX8, so I wish them luck trying to play that card!
Keep us posted!
Last edited by Mazurfer; 02-04-2010 at 07:49 PM.
02-05-2010, 02:45 PM
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So it looks like Mazda is gonna send me a new motor. Service rep calls me and says "I've got great news..." Not that great IMO. It feels kinda bittersweet. Yes I'm getting a re-built engine with new seals etc, but I feel like there are so many things that can go wrong with an engine install.
Can anyone give me any recommendations with the new motor? I didn't premix at all with the current engine. I'm thinking about premixing with this one.
Any differences between the engine being replaced and the rebuilt one mazda is sending?
(Yes, i'm gonna search too)
Can anyone give me any recommendations with the new motor? I didn't premix at all with the current engine. I'm thinking about premixing with this one.
Any differences between the engine being replaced and the rebuilt one mazda is sending?
(Yes, i'm gonna search too)
02-05-2010, 06:20 PM
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While it may be bittersweet, and I understand..............I would count my blessings.
A decent place to read might be this thread recently started. As with everything.....when you read through this, you will see what most people consider might be important and which may not be all that needed or proved as much as some others. Good thing with this thread is it's still relatively small, contains a lot of good info, and hasn't be completely contaminated yet.
A decent place to read might be this thread recently started. As with everything.....when you read through this, you will see what most people consider might be important and which may not be all that needed or proved as much as some others. Good thing with this thread is it's still relatively small, contains a lot of good info, and hasn't be completely contaminated yet.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 02-05-2010 at 06:22 PM.
02-08-2010, 12:28 PM
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More Zoom Zoom Gloom:
Mazda just called me letting me know that the reman. engines are on back-order with no eta
It sucks that Mazda won't provide me with a rental car as I'm out of manufacturer's warranty.
On a lighter note, i ordered an ACT Prolite flywheel and counter-balance and that will be installed with no additional labor costs
Mazda just called me letting me know that the reman. engines are on back-order with no eta
It sucks that Mazda won't provide me with a rental car as I'm out of manufacturer's warranty.
On a lighter note, i ordered an ACT Prolite flywheel and counter-balance and that will be installed with no additional labor costs
02-08-2010, 08:23 PM
#16
You will need new coils wire plugs.
Only enigine is replaced.
Good thing you have new CAT andO2 sensor.
you should be good to go.
OOPs!
Make sure they give you new motor mounts. I think the new engine warrenty comes with that.
Only enigine is replaced.
Good thing you have new CAT andO2 sensor.
you should be good to go.
OOPs!
Make sure they give you new motor mounts. I think the new engine warrenty comes with that.
02-08-2010, 09:03 PM
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02-09-2010, 06:09 AM
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a 16x... hmm, i think I learned my lesson with a first production year model.
Plugs have about 10 miles on them, Wires and coils have about 5k. Thanks for the heads up about the motor mounts.
02-10-2010, 05:12 PM
#19
Like the original poster, I think I might be a candidate for a new engine. About two weeks ago, I learned that my engine does not like to restart when warm, at all. Coolant was 179F when shut down for fueling and it was my second stop on my way home from work. After I finished refueling, I had to restart using the deflood procedure in the manual to get the engine started at all. The engine was at 47.4K miles.
Things that I am concerned the dealer might use as excuses to disallow the swap of the engine, if loss of compression is the problem:
I don't think that any of these should void the warranty; but I'd like to get input on what others think.
Things that I am concerned the dealer might use as excuses to disallow the swap of the engine, if loss of compression is the problem:
- BHR ignition kit with GMC Yukon coils
- Evans waterless NPG+ coolant
- oil change receipts show Valvoline synthetic, first of 5W20 and now 5W30
- Green Air Filter
I don't think that any of these should void the warranty; but I'd like to get input on what others think.
02-10-2010, 08:45 PM
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Like the original poster, I think I might be a candidate for a new engine. About two weeks ago, I learned that my engine does not like to restart when warm, at all. Coolant was 179F when shut down for fueling and it was my second stop on my way home from work. After I finished refueling, I had to restart using the deflood procedure in the manual to get the engine started at all. The engine was at 47.4K miles.
02-10-2010, 09:23 PM
#21
What maintenance on the MAF are you referring to?
02-10-2010, 09:34 PM
#22
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The MAF can become dirty and send an inaccuate signal, affecting fuel delivery. Buy a can of MAF cleaner, remove the MAF and spray it clean.
In general, I believe the aftermarket re-usable air filters do not filter out dust as well as the stock factory filter. That, combined with possible contamination from the applied filter oil along with the normal oil fumes from the breather, can further contaminate the MAF.
In general, I believe the aftermarket re-usable air filters do not filter out dust as well as the stock factory filter. That, combined with possible contamination from the applied filter oil along with the normal oil fumes from the breather, can further contaminate the MAF.
02-11-2010, 08:01 AM
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Green filter
Hey I don't know if it's a dealer by dealer thing or what but my car is currently getting a motor changed for the same symptoms as yours abd try had zero problem with mine having a green filter.
02-11-2010, 11:30 AM
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Like the original poster, I think I might be a candidate for a new engine. About two weeks ago, I learned that my engine does not like to restart when warm, at all. Coolant was 179F when shut down for fueling and it was my second stop on my way home from work. After I finished refueling, I had to restart using the deflood procedure in the manual to get the engine started at all. The engine was at 47.4K miles.
Things that I am concerned the dealer might use as excuses to disallow the swap of the engine, if loss of compression is the problem:
I don't think that any of these should void the warranty; but I'd like to get input on what others think.
Things that I am concerned the dealer might use as excuses to disallow the swap of the engine, if loss of compression is the problem:
- BHR ignition kit with GMC Yukon coils
- Evans waterless NPG+ coolant
- oil change receipts show Valvoline synthetic, first of 5W20 and now 5W30
- Green Air Filter
I don't think that any of these should void the warranty; but I'd like to get input on what others think.
If anything the BHR ignition should HELP with starting issues.
I dont see how the dealer could deny you of warranty work. They would have to prove that those items caused your engine to fail.
I noticed you are in Stamford too. My car is in my sig, whats yours look like? I think there are only 3 rx-8's in stamford and i have 1. Is your car @ Riley Mazda?
