Stupidly did a Seafoam treatment, now intermittently sounds like a tractor/no power
08-25-2013, 09:59 AM
#1
Stupidly did a Seafoam treatment, now intermittently sounds like a tractor/no power
- '04 GT 6spd
- ~70,000 miles
- Always WAWA 93 fuel
- BHR Ignition
- BHR Midpipe
- Cobb AP w/ MM Tune
- AEM CAI
- 1000 miles on current spark plugs
- Sufficient oil level
- Pre-mix 8oz of Idemitsu with every fill up
- REmedy water pump & thermostat
- Clean MAF sensor
- No CEL's
I've had the worst weekend.
This is going to be a "walk of shame" type post.
So some of you might have posted in or see my other thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...id-out-246928/
Something I've been dealing with for a few months. Well I had the compression test finally scheduled for this week and I saw I had a can of seafoam and thought, why not?
Followed MM's post here from a few years ago: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...5/#post2205636
Pulled half the can into both LIM nipples with the ESS unplugged and cranked the motor. Let it sit for an hour and a half then buttoned everything back up then started it. Got the giant smoke cloud which I expected but then the car began to run terribly, like a tractor. Probably like its running on one rotor.
I tried to drive around the best I could with the serious decrease in power thinking that MM mentioned his car ran like crap for 1/2 a day, this will eventually clear up.
Well that was yesterday morning.
Since then I've:
- Pulled all plugs and cleaned them the best I could, they're pretty dirty (I guess its time for new ones from the dealer, no time to wait for shipping)
- With the leading plugs out and ESS unplugged, I cranked the motor for a few seconds to push out any remaining seafoam; nice consistent pulses heard BTW
What's odd is the "intermittent" part. I could be (trying to) drive while it feels like a tractor then out of no where I'll get full power back. It never seems to last for more than 10 or so seconds before I lose it again.
NO CEL's. of course...
Again, I feel ashamed for having done this Seafoam treatment and incredibly pissed off at myself.
Thinking I just badly fouled the plugs? What could be causing the inconsistency to this severe power loss?
08-25-2013, 10:27 AM
#2
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Pick up OEM plugs from Advance Auto, most stores can get them in within 24 hours and it will keep you from paying dealer prices.
It is possible that your engine was "adapting" it's compression to the presence of carbon, and cleaning out even a bit of it resulted in a drop in compression. However, that wouldn't explain the intermittent nature of the problem. I'm betting it's just a severely fouled ignition from the seafoam treatment.
It is possible that your engine was "adapting" it's compression to the presence of carbon, and cleaning out even a bit of it resulted in a drop in compression. However, that wouldn't explain the intermittent nature of the problem. I'm betting it's just a severely fouled ignition from the seafoam treatment.
08-25-2013, 05:53 PM
#4
Installed plugs and it started and ran beautifully... for about 5 minutes.
The problem came back with a vengeance. This has been an extremely emotional day to say the least, mainly because I caused it.
I let it just idle to get warmed up then I took it our on my main street and did a quick 75% throttle 1 - 2 run then settled into a 45mph cruise in 4th and BAM, loss of power and i'm back in tractor mode. While trying to get back home without stalling, the power would come and go which is so damn weird.
If I let it sit for a bit and cool down it will start right back up perfectly but then randomly it will just start sputtering and die unless i give it some throttle. Fuel pump intermittently losing pressure?
Either way, my skill ran out with this car or my ability to accurately describe the issue just isn't good enough.
Getting it towed to the dealer in the morning as I think i may have just lost my patience. I uninstalled the AP completely and tidied up the engine bay in preperation. This thread, however, has me worried but there is some good info in there so we'll see I could re-isntall my stock cat but it's got a crack down the middle of the element when you look inside and I believe it was starting to fail.
The problem came back with a vengeance. This has been an extremely emotional day to say the least, mainly because I caused it.
I let it just idle to get warmed up then I took it our on my main street and did a quick 75% throttle 1 - 2 run then settled into a 45mph cruise in 4th and BAM, loss of power and i'm back in tractor mode. While trying to get back home without stalling, the power would come and go which is so damn weird.
If I let it sit for a bit and cool down it will start right back up perfectly but then randomly it will just start sputtering and die unless i give it some throttle. Fuel pump intermittently losing pressure?
Either way, my skill ran out with this car or my ability to accurately describe the issue just isn't good enough.
Getting it towed to the dealer in the morning as I think i may have just lost my patience. I uninstalled the AP completely and tidied up the engine bay in preperation. This thread, however, has me worried but there is some good info in there so we'll see I could re-isntall my stock cat but it's got a crack down the middle of the element when you look inside and I believe it was starting to fail.
Last edited by rickeo; 08-25-2013 at 05:56 PM.
08-25-2013, 08:07 PM
#6
Check your coils and wires to make sure you don't have a loose connection. The wires on the coil end are relatively fragile.....worth a look 
Also....reset your ESS....Mine acted up once randomly and it went away with a reset...the stupid sensor seems to be touchy if you get a different pattern...and missfires from dirty plugs could cause that
Also....reset your ESS....Mine acted up once randomly and it went away with a reset...the stupid sensor seems to be touchy if you get a different pattern...and missfires from dirty plugs could cause that
08-25-2013, 08:21 PM
#8
No turbo....I would take it out and drive it. ( Hard )
You might have carbon restricting the movements of some of the seals...
It's not like you are going to hurt it If it's done already it won't get worse from a good hard run......and if it's gummed up it might clear it out.
)You might have carbon restricting the movements of some of the seals...
It's not like you are going to hurt it
If it's done already it won't get worse from a good hard run......and if it's gummed up it might clear it out.
08-26-2013, 02:38 AM
#10
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I remember reading somewhere that carbon cleaning on RX-8 w.o. opening the engine is not recommended. In this RX8Club link, it's done by opening the engine apart.
The part where you tell that you installed the plugs and it started to run beautifully and after 5 minutes it started to go tractor again is interesting. I wish it ran beautifully all the time after the change.
The part where you tell that you installed the plugs and it started to run beautifully and after 5 minutes it started to go tractor again is interesting. I wish it ran beautifully all the time after the change.
08-26-2013, 06:39 AM
#11
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Don't tell the dealer YOU did it. I'll be surprised if they don't give you crap about your BHR ignition.
This is strange. I've had good results with Seasfoam (it actually reversed some of the problems you were having) but I dumped it in through the gas tank to defoul the injectors.
This is strange. I've had good results with Seasfoam (it actually reversed some of the problems you were having) but I dumped it in through the gas tank to defoul the injectors.
08-26-2013, 05:35 PM
#14
Triangular Bee Hive
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Sounds like the carbon was actually keeping your compression.
Once you seafoam it, you lost your compression.....
And when the car warm up, the gap appear between your seal and housing.
Just my guess.....don't quote me on it tho....good luck.
Once you seafoam it, you lost your compression.....
And when the car warm up, the gap appear between your seal and housing.
Just my guess.....don't quote me on it tho....good luck.
08-26-2013, 06:11 PM
#15
Don't tell the dealer YOU did it. I'll be surprised if they don't give you crap about your BHR ignition.
This is strange. I've had good results with Seasfoam (it actually reversed some of the problems you were having) but I dumped it in through the gas tank to defoul the injectors.
This is strange. I've had good results with Seasfoam (it actually reversed some of the problems you were having) but I dumped it in through the gas tank to defoul the injectors.
Got the car at 20k miles and scored a perfect compression test, right on par with Mazda spec. I now have 70k on it.
The dealer is going to look at it in the morning. I'm not expecting much so right now i'm putting together a spreadsheet for options such as rebuilds, selling it outright, remans, etc...
Mod edit: Personal reference removed. Referring to someone you have ignored is contrary to ignoring them.
-RIWWP
Last edited by RIWWP; 08-26-2013 at 08:00 PM.
08-27-2013, 01:11 PM
#19
Rotary Evolution
sounds like a coil crapped out while trying to fire the fouled plugs from the seafoam.
if you have a timing light handy, warm the car up until the problem presents itself and then clip the timing light to each plug wire until you come across one that isn't firing, clean the plug, check the wire and lastly change the coil if the other 2 do not fix it. didn't notice anything about new coils, if they have over 30k on them just replace them all if it comes to that.
if you have a timing light handy, warm the car up until the problem presents itself and then clip the timing light to each plug wire until you come across one that isn't firing, clean the plug, check the wire and lastly change the coil if the other 2 do not fix it. didn't notice anything about new coils, if they have over 30k on them just replace them all if it comes to that.
08-27-2013, 02:34 PM
#20
05 RX8 Sold///05 Evo VIII
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sounds like a coil crapped out while trying to fire the fouled plugs from the seafoam.
if you have a timing light handy, warm the car up until the problem presents itself and then clip the timing light to each plug wire until you come across one that isn't firing, clean the plug, check the wire and lastly change the coil if the other 2 do not fix it. didn't notice anything about new coils, if they have over 30k on them just replace them all if it comes to that.
if you have a timing light handy, warm the car up until the problem presents itself and then clip the timing light to each plug wire until you come across one that isn't firing, clean the plug, check the wire and lastly change the coil if the other 2 do not fix it. didn't notice anything about new coils, if they have over 30k on them just replace them all if it comes to that.
08-27-2013, 03:29 PM
#21
Rotary Evolution
the higher the output the more susceptible they are to failing when stressed. of course LSx engines don't normally have to deal with plug fouling or extreme heat so many problems aren't noted.
voltage has to go somewhere, even if it can't.
voltage has to go somewhere, even if it can't.
08-28-2013, 10:08 AM
#23
Ok, well its still not fixed.
To my surprise, the dealer hasn't given me any grief about the mods.
Then again, the coils MAY be an issue.. read below.
The Dealer seems to think the compression is still up to spec, though a little low on one face of rotor two. I haven't been into the dealer myself to look at the sheet so I don't know the details yet. They checked fuel pressure which is fine.
Remember how I said I was never getting a CEL? Well right before the tow truck came to take it to the dealer, I tried to start it one last time and it didn't start cleanly as it has other times this weekend. It immediately went into tractor mode and after a few revs... blinking CEL.
I immediately shut it off and wiped my hands of it.
I haven't heard from them yet this morning but when I spoke to them late yesterday afternoon they were going to investigate an "electrical" issue. My BHR coils all tested fine when I used the testing procedure I got from TeamRX8 elsewhere on this forum but who knows now that there is an actual misfire CEL.
I told them the stock coils were on the passenger floorwell and he said he'd let the tech know so they can investigate that.
I'm curious, do dealerships ever get to a point where they say they can't fix it and/or don't know what's wrong with it?
To my surprise, the dealer hasn't given me any grief about the mods.
Then again, the coils MAY be an issue.. read below.
The Dealer seems to think the compression is still up to spec, though a little low on one face of rotor two. I haven't been into the dealer myself to look at the sheet so I don't know the details yet. They checked fuel pressure which is fine.
Remember how I said I was never getting a CEL? Well right before the tow truck came to take it to the dealer, I tried to start it one last time and it didn't start cleanly as it has other times this weekend. It immediately went into tractor mode and after a few revs... blinking CEL.
I immediately shut it off and wiped my hands of it.
I haven't heard from them yet this morning but when I spoke to them late yesterday afternoon they were going to investigate an "electrical" issue. My BHR coils all tested fine when I used the testing procedure I got from TeamRX8 elsewhere on this forum but who knows now that there is an actual misfire CEL.
I told them the stock coils were on the passenger floorwell and he said he'd let the tech know so they can investigate that.
I'm curious, do dealerships ever get to a point where they say they can't fix it and/or don't know what's wrong with it?
08-28-2013, 10:13 AM
#24
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Yes, all the time. It's usually referred to as "can not duplicate customer concern", though sometimes it is arrived at when the owner can't afford to pay for all the expensive parts the dealer is throwing at it randomly. "Throttle body failure" is commonly involved in this latter bit. Dealers love replacing them and I've seen less than 5 actual failures reported on the forums.
08-28-2013, 10:18 AM
#25
It's funny you mentioned that. In my thread previous to this one regarding the poor performance in hot/humid weather, I was emailing Charles @ BHR and he was indicating that could be a developing issue I was having. He also suggested reconditioning the ground points under the airbox tray and testing/replacing the fuel pump resistor. I never got anywhere with the resistor but I did go to town on those ground points with a wire brush then a multimeter and they all checked out.
Either way, I don't see how that could be causing my current issue. Definitely not going to have them just replace my throttle body at this point.
Either way, I don't see how that could be causing my current issue. Definitely not going to have them just replace my throttle body at this point.
Last edited by rickeo; 08-28-2013 at 10:20 AM.
