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Old 02-09-2009, 03:46 PM   #1
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Rattle and Clattering noise

I see plenty of previous posts on "Engine Clattering "noise, but I could not determin anything close to a reason for it - So with applogies for re-starting this subject, here is what I recently experienced - any theories on what it could be will be greatly appreciated by myself and the RX8 Tech who can't figure it out either.

2004 RX8 AT, with 19,000 miles.

Yesterday at about 5000 rpm, 2nd gear my passenger and I both heard a loud, fast "Rattling" sound. To my ear it sounded just like a worn bearing running well over it's design speed (I know it's not that, just trying to describe the sound).

Back off the throttle and sound went away, I think I alos lost some power while this sound was happening, but I can't be absolutely sure.

Anyway, continued on our 200 mile journey and as long as I kept below 5000 rpm all was OK for quite a while, then the sound came back again, this time at lower rpms of 2000 - the noise was unmistakable, I really thought my engine was falling apart.
Lifted the hood to see if anything obvious, at idle no noise, with passenger moving engine speed up to 2500 I heard the noise, and it seemed to be coming from the two aluminum tubes entering the engine left side looking into the hood.

Nursed it home, drained the oil expecting to see metal parts - nothing, oil bucket was a clean as a whistle.

Took it to my local Mazda mechanic next day, on the way I tried to re-produce the clattering noise, I could not get it to make the noise that was so ewasy to reproduce the day befoer !!! - doesn't that make you mad !!

Mechanic looked it over test drove it, could not get it to make the noise, checked engine codes, re-calls, service bulletins etc - Nothing.

Anyone have a clue about what might be wrong so I can give my Mazda tech some idea about what to look for?
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:11 PM   #2
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Is this a double post?

See this thread you started: Rattle and Clattering noise


You can delete either this thread or the other one by looking at the "Thread Tools" drop down at the top right side; then click on "Delete Thread"
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamy View Post
I see plenty of previous posts on "Engine Clattering "noise, but I could not determin anything close to a reason for it - So with applogies for re-starting this subject, here is what I recently experienced - any theories on what it could be will be greatly appreciated by myself and the RX8 Tech who can't figure it out either.

2004 RX8 AT, with 19,000 miles.

Yesterday at about 5000 rpm, 2nd gear my passenger and I both heard a loud, fast "Rattling" sound. To my ear it sounded just like a worn bearing running well over it's design speed (I know it's not that, just trying to describe the sound).

Back off the throttle and sound went away, I think I alos lost some power while this sound was happening, but I can't be absolutely sure.

Anyway, continued on our 200 mile journey and as long as I kept below 5000 rpm all was OK for quite a while, then the sound came back again, this time at lower rpms of 2000 - the noise was unmistakable, I really thought my engine was falling apart.
Lifted the hood to see if anything obvious, at idle no noise, with passenger moving engine speed up to 2500 I heard the noise, and it seemed to be coming from the two aluminum tubes entering the engine left side looking into the hood.

Nursed it home, drained the oil expecting to see metal parts - nothing, oil bucket was a clean as a whistle.

Took it to my local Mazda mechanic next day, on the way I tried to re-produce the clattering noise, I could not get it to make the noise that was so ewasy to reproduce the day befoer !!! - doesn't that make you mad !!

Mechanic looked it over test drove it, could not get it to make the noise, checked engine codes, re-calls, service bulletins etc - Nothing.

Anyone have a clue about what might be wrong so I can give my Mazda tech some idea about what to look for?


What octane fuel are you using? reg-87 mid-89 or prem-91?
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:26 PM   #4
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It looks like a double thread, I don't know why, I only started it once to my knowledge.
Answer to fuel question; I use mid grade and have done for 4 years without problem.
Also, the sound I am hearing is very different from what I know as Ping or engine knock that is heard in piston engines running low octane fuel.
Does engine "Knock" sound that different in a rotary ?
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:32 PM   #5
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Very different - it has been compared to "marbles in a coffee-can"....

S
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamy View Post
It looks like a double thread, I don't know why, I only started it once to my knowledge.
Answer to fuel question; I use mid grade and have done for 4 years without problem.
Also, the sound I am hearing is very different from what I know as Ping or engine knock that is heard in piston engines running low octane fuel.
Does engine "Knock" sound that different in a rotary ?


Some times known as "MIAC" Marbles In A Can. Here is some info...


Intermittent Detonation/Pre-ignition

Last edited by Old Rotor; 02-09-2009 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:16 PM   #7
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So what we have so far is either low grade fuel or air in the coolant.
1) Fuel, well the same fuel is in the tank today as yesterday, yet we can't re-produce the Rattling. Doesn't sound like it's the fuel.

2) Air in the coolant, maybe, how does one find out if this is the case and how to remove the air ?

3) One suggestion was to by-pass the air intake water heating pipes. I don't see the logic in this, anyone care to clarify this theory?

I am still have trouble believing it is any of these possibilities - the sound we heard yesterday was quite dramatic..

I have one other thought - there must be some kind of air control valves in the intake, could they be mechanically loose or have weak springs etc.

Any other thoughts or diagnostics to try.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:59 PM   #8
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I hope it's not Detonation because it is very bad for the Rotary. Try prem-fuel and if it goes away then there you are.
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:48 AM   #9
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Rattling noise - water in the oil theory

Here is another theory on the engine rattling noise up for comments -
Water in the oil, http://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/Eyecrazy.gif.

Maybe because the RX8 engine allows a significant amount of water to collect in the engine oil, there is "Cavitation" going on.
As a process engineer I know the sounds cavitation in pumps and valves can make, this engine rattling noise is quite similar in many respects.

For those who don't know about cavitation, the simple explaination is when a fluid turns into a vapor and then the vapor bubbles collapse very quickly in a confined place such as the inlet to a pump OR a rotary engine.
The water in the oil gets very hot and so would easily turn into a vapor at the slightest lowering of pressure which could occur within the rotating parts of the engine.

This might explain why I could not re-produce the Rattling noise when all I did was change the oil !!

Could the rotary "Gurus" please comment.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:38 AM   #10
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Do you have stock cat? If so unbolt and check it.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:38 PM   #11
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Faulty CAT

I can take the stock CAT off and check it, but if it were faulty wouldn't that show up as check-engine-light.

Could you explain what am I looking for and why this might contribute to the rattling noise.
By the way, still using same tank of gas and no signs of the rattling noise heard two days ago. All I have done is change the oil..
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:30 PM   #12
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this same exact thing happens to me, i have a 07 A/T with 55k miles. this problem occurs when i have been driving a while and when the engine is the hottest. when i apply any acceleration there is a clattering noise (sounds exactly like birds chirping). i can never home in on the location of the sound because this only happens when in Drive, and just like Foamy says anything past 5k rpm there is a loud raspy/ rattling sound followed by a little bit of power lose.

in my opinion i think its the ssv trying to operate properly, but due to the intense heat, its not opening or operating right hints the loud clatter/ rasp noise at high rpm when it is supposed to actuate.

like i said tho this only happens when the engine is at its hottest or standard operating temp, otherwise it drives fine and smooth.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:30 PM
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