Power Steering Failure
05-31-2010, 11:20 PM
#151
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Last night lost the power steering again. The last couple of weeks it was giving some sign since when cold and beginning to steer, it shudders and thereafter, verything ok. This morning just cut out the damn gray sensor connectors (both ends - the one with 3 wires) and soldered both wires ends. Everything back to normal. I didn't use any additional wires, just moved the wires more to the right (looking from the front of the car) and got enough wire to tie and solder these.
06-02-2010, 12:14 PM
#152
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Has anyone got a photo of where all the sensors are on the actual rack? or a detailed image of where the connectors that cause the problems are etc. and good instructions how to get to them.
Thanks
Thanks
Last edited by MaDProFF; 06-02-2010 at 12:21 PM.
06-02-2010, 01:48 PM
#154
SARX Legend
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I replaced the harness and it worked fine for a couple of weeks and now it is shitting out again, I looked at replacing the whole thing but the part from the battery goes into a harness, I'm not sure I wanna mess with it. I need to look at a wiring diagram.
06-02-2010, 02:17 PM
#156
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Okay so since I replaced the intermediate harness with a brand new unit I am thinking it's the large 8g wires and connector coming from the EPS unit. Can those be replaced or are they hard wired?
06-03-2010, 07:58 AM
#157
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I checked the 2 connectors under the intake tray, cleaned them sprayed WD 40 on them, but tbh, they looked clean as anything, and even the connector blocks had rubber grommets up them to stop water getting in to the connectors,
I read that there was an upper connector on that loom, where is that one?
I read that there was an upper connector on that loom, where is that one?
06-05-2010, 01:57 PM
#158
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Again and again. This is that kind of intermittent problem that can be a heavy headache. After eliminating the conectors related to the torque sensor about 1 week ago, it is also "shiting" again but only when cold. Thereafter, PS work fine.
Anyway, my next step will be to solder the power wires, also eliminating the related gray conector. I have some concern of doing this since that is the point were u can disconect power in any emergency or anormality occurs. Before someone mentioned he took out the pins from the conector and tied up the pins since these looked as if there was loosness between both ends pins, affecting the continuity of the circuit. My only theory at this moment is that it might be what is happening also with the power connection and that is why the issue is intermittent and when cold.
By the way, someone mentioned before that the sensor wires were 14 g but based on what I saw and worked on last week, these are 18 g.
It appears I'm getting closer to the $$$ parts.
Anyway, my next step will be to solder the power wires, also eliminating the related gray conector. I have some concern of doing this since that is the point were u can disconect power in any emergency or anormality occurs. Before someone mentioned he took out the pins from the conector and tied up the pins since these looked as if there was loosness between both ends pins, affecting the continuity of the circuit. My only theory at this moment is that it might be what is happening also with the power connection and that is why the issue is intermittent and when cold.
By the way, someone mentioned before that the sensor wires were 14 g but based on what I saw and worked on last week, these are 18 g.
It appears I'm getting closer to the $$$ parts.
06-07-2010, 12:52 PM
#159
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Thanks for this thread guys, solved my problem. :D
In my last scheduled service the morons overfilled my cooler and summer came to Sweden. First warm day and I had 3 other rather large gentlemen in the car for a lunch drive. Well, it overflowed like hell and suddenly the power steering light came on. Out with the air box and clean out of the connector and how its gone.
Whats up with the hose going out right on top of these?! Good engineering Mazda. Is it the same on the R3?
In my last scheduled service the morons overfilled my cooler and summer came to Sweden. First warm day and I had 3 other rather large gentlemen in the car for a lunch drive. Well, it overflowed like hell and suddenly the power steering light came on. Out with the air box and clean out of the connector and how its gone.
Whats up with the hose going out right on top of these?! Good engineering Mazda. Is it the same on the R3?
06-08-2010, 02:27 PM
#160
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I too have a problem with my PS. It has happened 3 times now. Always within a few miles of setting off. Power steering works fine then all of a sudden the PS light comes on and there is no power steering. If I turn the ignition off then on again it works fine for the rest of the journey. I hooked the laptop up to the obd port and there is no code logged. I looked at the connectors under the air box, both look to be dry as a bone with zero corrosion.
It seems more like most of the posts in this thread are along the lines of the PS not working from startup. Or has anyone else experienced similar power steering loss to me?
It seems more like most of the posts in this thread are along the lines of the PS not working from startup. Or has anyone else experienced similar power steering loss to me?
06-09-2010, 04:38 PM
#161
Update
I am now beyond perplexed and exasperated.
As noted above, I've removed and replaced/swapped every component of the system except the rack itself.
I've pulled individual components and tested them against various scenarios, scoped the power sources, the signal lines the output of the EPS HU and read the codes from the EPS diagnostic.
I had consigned myself to having to replace the rack since it was the only component left in place and the same failure mode (bucking, vibration, self-initiated counter-steer, sudden increase and/or loss of assist, etc.) was always present, even when all other components were different or new.
This past weekend, I just figured I'd disconnect the EPS and drive unassisted in the NASA track event at Firebird.
I went into my sessions with it actually still connected and had it present all failure modes, including some wild self-steering that almost put me completely off track.
Eventually, the unit failed, the steering MIL came on and I drove unassisted.
After cycling the ignition for another session, the same thing happened again.
When driving home from the event, again - the same.
So, I parked the car, put it up on jack-stands and proceeded to change the turbo out (my center section had a bearing failure). BTW - it bucked and failed as I drove it into the garage.
After 2 days of sitting in the garage this way, I took it down off the stands and pulled it out of the garage.
THE ******* STEERING WAS AS PERFECT AS THE DAY I BROUGHT THE ******* CAR HOME.
Not a buck. Not a vibration. Perfect assist in both directions. No noises. No self-steer.
I've since driven it about 60 miles on local streets and the highway and gone through a complete heat cycle and many restarts as well as a car wash.
Still absolutely perfect.
WTF is going on here?
From the time it went on the jack-stands until the next time I drove it, the following things occurred:
The oil was drained
the coolant was drained
the brake pads and rotors were swapped for my street setup along with my wheels
The turbocharger was removed, which required lowering the front of the midpipe and the disconnection of the oil, water and air connections to the turbo and removal of the two motor mounts
That is it. These are ALL things I have done repeatedly in the past without them affecting the steering problem.
I did NOT disconnect the battery.
I did NOT disconnect any harness components, other than the oil pressure sender wire (so that it wont get mangled)
In the past, I had noticed that the steering got better after a track day or an Auto-X, but not completely fixed and it was still completely failed after this track event. It was only after sitting for a few days that it worked again.
Apparently, something is intermittent, but WHAT?
Now, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. When will it just randomly fail again at highway speeds in traffic as it drives me up a k-wall and into the Salt River?!?!
I will buy beer, cigars and a hooker for whoever figures this crap out. I've had it.
As noted above, I've removed and replaced/swapped every component of the system except the rack itself.
I've pulled individual components and tested them against various scenarios, scoped the power sources, the signal lines the output of the EPS HU and read the codes from the EPS diagnostic.
I had consigned myself to having to replace the rack since it was the only component left in place and the same failure mode (bucking, vibration, self-initiated counter-steer, sudden increase and/or loss of assist, etc.) was always present, even when all other components were different or new.
This past weekend, I just figured I'd disconnect the EPS and drive unassisted in the NASA track event at Firebird.
I went into my sessions with it actually still connected and had it present all failure modes, including some wild self-steering that almost put me completely off track.
Eventually, the unit failed, the steering MIL came on and I drove unassisted.
After cycling the ignition for another session, the same thing happened again.
When driving home from the event, again - the same.
So, I parked the car, put it up on jack-stands and proceeded to change the turbo out (my center section had a bearing failure). BTW - it bucked and failed as I drove it into the garage.
After 2 days of sitting in the garage this way, I took it down off the stands and pulled it out of the garage.
THE ******* STEERING WAS AS PERFECT AS THE DAY I BROUGHT THE ******* CAR HOME.
Not a buck. Not a vibration. Perfect assist in both directions. No noises. No self-steer.
I've since driven it about 60 miles on local streets and the highway and gone through a complete heat cycle and many restarts as well as a car wash.
Still absolutely perfect.
WTF is going on here?
From the time it went on the jack-stands until the next time I drove it, the following things occurred:
The oil was drained
the coolant was drained
the brake pads and rotors were swapped for my street setup along with my wheels
The turbocharger was removed, which required lowering the front of the midpipe and the disconnection of the oil, water and air connections to the turbo and removal of the two motor mounts
That is it. These are ALL things I have done repeatedly in the past without them affecting the steering problem.
I did NOT disconnect the battery.
I did NOT disconnect any harness components, other than the oil pressure sender wire (so that it wont get mangled)
In the past, I had noticed that the steering got better after a track day or an Auto-X, but not completely fixed and it was still completely failed after this track event. It was only after sitting for a few days that it worked again.
Apparently, something is intermittent, but WHAT?
Now, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. When will it just randomly fail again at highway speeds in traffic as it drives me up a k-wall and into the Salt River?!?!
I will buy beer, cigars and a hooker for whoever figures this crap out. I've had it.
06-09-2010, 05:03 PM
#162
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Definitely weird. I replaced the harness, it worked for a while, then started acting up again. So, I unplugged everything, reset the battery and I have not had a problem since.
MM, we have a local member who is a tech at a Mazda dealer and he cannot figure this out on his own car. Probably why most dealers just say "screw it" and replace the whole rack. There is one here in Texas for sale for like $375.00 with 36,000 miles on it.
MM, we have a local member who is a tech at a Mazda dealer and he cannot figure this out on his own car. Probably why most dealers just say "screw it" and replace the whole rack. There is one here in Texas for sale for like $375.00 with 36,000 miles on it.
06-09-2010, 05:28 PM
#164
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Seems to me like there is some sort of short in the rack itself or something (sorry I know that doesn't help). Can you get me the hooker anyway? 
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 06-09-2010 at 05:39 PM.
08-16-2010, 10:25 AM
#165
Mazda Maniac, sounds like you recalibrated your zero on your steering... using the IDS system here at work, all you do Is lift the car up off the wheels and lower it back down, simple as that... I on the other hand am gonna solder my wires up one of these days....
08-16-2010, 11:00 AM
#166
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Third thread was VERY helpful. but I had a sort of unusual presentation of this problem, so here it is just in case it's helpful or anything.
2004 MT - 76,000 miles. Didn't initially get an error code, only later did I get EPS B2278 - "torque sensor" problem.
Power steering would only function on ONE SIDE at a time. If I manhandled it over to that side while driving, it would switch and only function on the OTHER side. This obviously points to a problem with the torque sensor. I think JonG and other people had a different problem, where it would cut out entirely.
I cleaned and lubricated (with silicone dielectric grease) the two top harness connectors, and it didn't help at all.
I then spliced out the torque sensor connector up top, and soldered the 3 wires together. Didn't help at all either.
Starting to panic and hoping nothing more serious was wrong, i did most of the diagnostics on the EPS control module and the torque sensor (resistance between 12 and 15 ohms, etc). Everything normal.
Finally, I cleaned and lubricated all four parts of the harness with electric contact cleaner + toothbrush, followed by silicone dielectric grease. Checked for good continuity through the whole harness. STILL NOTHING.
Giving up, I had to drive back to school. Half an hour into the drive, I notice "hang on, everything feels alright?!?" Everything was back to normal.
Moral of this story: this harness and system is EXTREMELY fragile/sensitive. if the tiny bit of movement/evaporation/something else tiny that occurred between leaving the house and a half hour later is the difference between power steering working or not, I consider that a VERY finicky system.
So if you've had this problem and cleaning the contacts doesnt work, definitely try replacing the harness and lubricating the contacts, even if you've tried rewiring the harness yourself. That, plus proper cleaning/greasing. Just dont go throwing expensive parts like a steering rack or EPS control module at it until you've REALLY exhausted all the options!
2004 MT - 76,000 miles. Didn't initially get an error code, only later did I get EPS B2278 - "torque sensor" problem.
Power steering would only function on ONE SIDE at a time. If I manhandled it over to that side while driving, it would switch and only function on the OTHER side. This obviously points to a problem with the torque sensor. I think JonG and other people had a different problem, where it would cut out entirely.
I cleaned and lubricated (with silicone dielectric grease) the two top harness connectors, and it didn't help at all.
I then spliced out the torque sensor connector up top, and soldered the 3 wires together. Didn't help at all either.
Starting to panic and hoping nothing more serious was wrong, i did most of the diagnostics on the EPS control module and the torque sensor (resistance between 12 and 15 ohms, etc). Everything normal.
Finally, I cleaned and lubricated all four parts of the harness with electric contact cleaner + toothbrush, followed by silicone dielectric grease. Checked for good continuity through the whole harness. STILL NOTHING.
Giving up, I had to drive back to school. Half an hour into the drive, I notice "hang on, everything feels alright?!?" Everything was back to normal.
Moral of this story: this harness and system is EXTREMELY fragile/sensitive. if the tiny bit of movement/evaporation/something else tiny that occurred between leaving the house and a half hour later is the difference between power steering working or not, I consider that a VERY finicky system.
So if you've had this problem and cleaning the contacts doesnt work, definitely try replacing the harness and lubricating the contacts, even if you've tried rewiring the harness yourself. That, plus proper cleaning/greasing. Just dont go throwing expensive parts like a steering rack or EPS control module at it until you've REALLY exhausted all the options!
I've had this same problem for the last 5 months. Looked at the contacts and they were clean, but I cleaned them with contract cleaner anyway. Took it to the dealer and they want to charge $1200 for an EPS module and $200 to intall the dang thing. I AM NOT mechanically inclined, so I feel helpless and at the mercy of the stealership.
08-16-2010, 11:27 AM
#167
Here's a photo I took when I replaced my radiator. It's the harness to the right with the three small gauge wires. Other members have soldered those together due to dirt and fluid getting in the terminal, as you can see below where the coolant fluid had travelled, which interferes with the contact plates. I just cleaned then secured mine tightly with zip ties and extended the hose from the reservior, after two weeks of having power steering problems post radiator change.
Hope the pictures helps!
Hope the pictures helps!
Last edited by Grace_Excel; 03-09-2013 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Updated pictures
08-16-2010, 11:58 AM
#168
When it was hooked up to the shop computer, it showed all normal output and on-zero was correct.
When the steering was turned, the torque sensor would register the bucking and resistance as little variations in the assist - way less in appearance then they were in actual function.
Then, it just fixed itself and has been perfect ever since.
It had been lifted and operated many times before the self-fix with no effect.
09-15-2010, 12:54 PM
#170
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This issue just hit my 2004 RX-8. 63,000 miles. I cleaned the connectors and the issue seems to hit or miss. Anyway I took it to the dealer and they codes they said were the rack and eps module. Techline told them most of the issues are with the rack. So they basically said try the rack first and we'll see. I brought up the harness and they didn't even seem interested.
Anyway I'm planning on just buying a new harness and trying that first. I've looked at the diagrams but wondering how hard is it to get to the other side of motor/torque sensor connectors. When I removed the airbox I didn't look to see how the other side was routed.
thanks
Anyway I'm planning on just buying a new harness and trying that first. I've looked at the diagrams but wondering how hard is it to get to the other side of motor/torque sensor connectors. When I removed the airbox I didn't look to see how the other side was routed.
thanks
09-16-2010, 01:09 PM
#171
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I just read the whole thread and I am having the same issue.
I wonder out of all those who cleaned or replaced the harness how many are still working and how many had the issue resurface?
I was about to get mine cleaned/rewired but now after seeing all this I am worried I might need to replace the rack.
(Add's this to the thousands of dollars in repair work needed for the car)
It's enough I need a new engine and maybe even a new transmission, tail light, driver seat, dash board, headlight, etc, etc!
I wonder out of all those who cleaned or replaced the harness how many are still working and how many had the issue resurface?
I was about to get mine cleaned/rewired but now after seeing all this I am worried I might need to replace the rack.
(Add's this to the thousands of dollars in repair work needed for the car)
It's enough I need a new engine and maybe even a new transmission, tail light, driver seat, dash board, headlight, etc, etc!
Last edited by cavemancan; 09-16-2010 at 01:13 PM.
09-16-2010, 03:06 PM
#174
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Great thread folks, the heavy rains in May that flooded Nashville Tn. killed my rx8. The insurance replaced the motor, however since then the steering has been acting up a bit, now that I'm armed with this info, there is going to be some cleaning connectors and adding length to the overflow drain tube this weekend. 
Hope that does the trick...
Hope that does the trick...
09-16-2010, 04:08 PM
#175
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Great thread folks, the heavy rains in May that flooded Nashville Tn. killed my rx8. The insurance replaced the motor, however since then the steering has been acting up a bit, now that I'm armed with this info, there is going to be some cleaning connectors and adding length to the overflow drain tube this weekend. Hope that does the trick...
Hope that does the trick...