balkhu

I have been hesitating to do anything because only thing I have done in the past is changing the brake pads...I definitely don't want to pay for the new intake manifold....I will try to muster some confidence to clean it up in the coming weeks ...Thanks

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Or if you can hold off until Spring time and don't mind driving an hour and 40 minutes, you can come up to Ohio and we can work on it.

balkhu

Hi Jon,
Thanks a lot for the offer. I don't think I can wait that long since I am already past my inspection date of Dec 09. I think your video is clear enough for me to give it a try and I will also try to get one of my friends who works on cars a lot to help me out. Thanks again.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Alright... offer still stands if you need it.
Good luck and keep us posted.

tksnobords

is this the catch can u guys are talking about? whats the difference between the 9mm and 15mm?

http://www.mazdaparts.com/ProductDet...000-1151625294

SweetBlue04

Once again, I've got the P2070. Hubby doesn't want to venture where he's not familiar and says that since it's still under warranty (8yrs, 100,000 miles for those of you who thought it had expired), they should fix it. Guess I can't disagree there, but I just had this done in Nov '08. If they fixed it right, I shouldn't be having these problems so soon. I was able to clear it during the summer several times by running it really hard, but that's not working now and it's starting to get sluggish.

I really love this car, but would like to get better gas mileage. I'd like to keep it a few more years, but if this continues I may not. I just checked the car value and it's down to $7550. Hard to believe. Anyone check out the new Hyundai Genesis? It might be RX8's new competition.

jdzoom8

I recently got the CEL P2070 for the stuck open SSV (2004 with 78K miles). I verified this by trying to manually operate the valve and it is not budging. I am experiencing some rough idle and that is about all.

I have had idle problems in the past and recently have had the following major items done:
New PCM (PCM failed - replaced under warranty)
New Cat (replaced under warranty for rough idle)
New Engine (replaced under warranty for rough idle and failed compression)

Immediately after the CAT was replaced, I started to feel a hesitation around 4250 rpm (around when the SSV was to open). It was until after I got the new engine (Failed compression) and kept the car under 3-4K for about a month during the break in period that I started to get the SSV CEL. I suppose not actuating the valve often will do this..figures.

I have checked my throttle body in the past (over a year ago) and it was as clean as a whistle. I have done all of my oil changes and never overfilled the oil, although I didn't do the one after the engine replacement.... I might take another look at the throttle body to see if there is some recent oil build-up.

So 2 questions on the SSV:
- Is this warranty work (Fall under the emissions 80k or engine warranty 100k) to free up the SSV (ideally by removing and cleaning). Sounds as if the Engine cleaner doesn't do the trick.
- Is it just a coincidence that I was feeling hesitation at 4250 rpm after the CAT was replaced? Anyone else experienced this?

Any other comments?
Thanks for the insight.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

jdzoom8- I doubt the dealer will cover this since its not emission or engine core related, but you can print the following TSB and take it to them and ask.
Tell them that you verified that its stuck.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...9-08-1929a.pdf

If the dealer won't cover it, either pay for them to do it or do it yourself:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-yourself-forum-73/diy-remove-ssv-beta-teaser-video-184663/

Also... if the dealer quotes you a price to perform this, let me know what it is.
I'm real curious.
And I think its a coincidence that the cat was replaced around the same time.
This issue is more prone to occur with colder outside temps.

jdzoom8

Will do Jon.

Just curious how long do you think this takes (I watched the video and looks fairly involved to say the least) for the average Joe?

Also, once you removed the SSV, what did you use to clean the manifold and valve?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I would say give yourself a good 3 hours and take your time.
You also need to fill the car back up with coolant since you drained it, so time for that too.

I used carb cleaner that you can buy from Autozone for a couple bucks.

jdzoom8

The dealer quoted ~ $400 to do the work. I do not believe this included the new solenoid, just the removal and cleaning.

I am not sure if it is worth doing the repair if the SSV is stuck open. Besides a CEL and possible rough idle, is there an impact to not doing the repair?

Also, it doesn't seem entirely clear what is causing the SSV to gum up anyways. Is it just oil getting into the intake...combustion deposits?? How does one avoid this in the future.

Lastly, supposedly the TSB calls out to install a modified solenoid with a stronger actuating force. Has anyone had experienced the same issues with the new solenoid? How about repeat SSV issues after removing the SSV, cleaning it, and reinstalling it?

Thanks.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

What makes you think a new solenoid is required?
Its only an electric switch that opens a pathway for the vacuum already present in the vacuum chamber/intake.

Besides rough idle you can start to have power loss and I've even seen stalling.

I've seen where overfilling the oil caused this (in '04 or '05 models) and it can be from just engine deposits.
Its still unknown (to me) if the new valve and actuator really helps eliminate this issue or just prolongs it.

Or it appears that an actuator that requires less vacuum is used in the newer version.
Therefore, instead of requiring 10in.Hg of vacuum to the actuator to fully open, only 5 is needed (for example).
The original solenoid is still pulling the same vacuum on a diaphragm that requires half of that.

I have not had my hands on the new valve and actuator to tell you exact numbers, but that is what my guess on how they revised this.
I'll try to find out more information on the actuator.

Again... where do you see this in the TSB?


I have not seen repeat issues after cleaning, though not many have tackled this themselves that I'm aware of.
It was about Dec '09 that this was discovered and relayed here on the forum, so its still fairly new.
I honestly have no doubt that it can return with the original valve and actuator.
But it'll be difficult to judge the new version... your engine might go before the valve does again

lepichichi

iTrader: (10)

thanks jon316G for the DIY. I just got the stupid code P2070 i will be cleaning my ssv this weekend.

you are the man!

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

lepichichi- Like I warn everyone else, please verify that the valve is actually stuck before going through the trouble.
Other things like the solenoid can also cause this code.

jdzoom8

Jon -

I thought I saw somewhere in one of these posts around the gaskets required...Is it just the SSV and ACV? Any other parts to order to prepare for the repair?
How about special tools required to get to any bolts? Any other items worth noting? Thanks for your help!

This is straight from the TSB - note the stronger actuator (N3H5-20-160F Vavle, Shutter-Manifold (SSV)). I also included the TSB.

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may experience a MIL with DTC P2070 (SSV Stuck Open). This may be caused by carbon build
up near the SSV bushing, which may cause driveability concerns (hesitation and / or lack of power) and / or
DTC P2070. A cleaning procedure and a revised SSV with stronger actuator force is now available.
Customers having this concern should have their vehicle repaired using the following repair procedure.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

jdzoom8- Only gasket that would be nice to replace is for the thermostat.
I wouldn't worry about the SSV or ACV unless you deform the SSV gasket trying to remove it.

No special tools required.
Mainly 10mm and 12mm sockets and combination wrenches will get the job done.
A telescoping magnetic rod it nice so you don't drop bolts into the abyss... really good for the SSV bolts (which you see me use in the DIY video).

Far as the TSB I have yet to try the stronger actuator/valve so I can't really say much about it.
My opinion, the new assembly will only prolong the sticking issue, but its unknown for how long.
Your engine may likely die before the new assembly sticks... but again, that's my guess.
I do like how in the TSB they lay a shop rag over the runners so the build-up doesn't run down into the engine.

jdzoom8

Thanks - do you have the part number for the thermostat gasket or can you direct me to the other thread which identifies this and the cost.

Thanks.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Part Number = N3H110153

jdzoom8

So I finally got around to pulling out the SSV yesterday. Thanks a lot for the video and info Jon.

All in all it went pretty smooth. Had a few extra hands so that made things easier. Took about 5 hours or so.

The SSV was pretty tough to physically pull out. It was gummed up pretty good. I used some Mazda engine cleaner and carb spray to clean it up.

I also open up my throttle body and did not find any build-up. I open up my upper intake manifold extension above the SSV and it didn't look too bad, just a little build-up. I am not sure where it is all originating from, but there was a lot of build-up in the runners below the SSV so I am assuming engine combustion....

The car accelerates smoother...no hesitation when the SSV opens and idles a bit better, but still fighting some idle issues unrelated to this valve...not sure what else is left to fix that problem. The CEL went away upon restart. I did not have too much trouble restarting the car, it cranked for about 2 seconds. I did make sure to cover the intake runners below the SSV so all the build-up didn't go into the engine. I was unable to get the back of the cavity all cleaned up...but the SSV actuates easily and freely now.

Oh...one thing I did find was a small sliver of metal in the thermostat (about 2 inches long and very thin). I do not believe it is part of the thermostat and not sure where it came from. So that was interesting. Any thoughts on that one?

Also, anyone ever blanked off there ACV line to the Exhaust? Thoughts on this?

Thanks again! It was a pretty good Saturday task and a good learning experience.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Good job jdzoom8... glad it worked out OK.
People who run without a cat can remove that hard-pipe below the ACV and install a blank/plate where the pipe would connect to the exhaust manifold.
I remember hearing that a company actually sells this plate, but I can't think of who at the moment.
But its nothing you couldn't easily fab yourself.
Also, you would have to disconnect the electrical connection on the solenoid for the AIR system so it doesn't create an air leak in the intake.

Far as the metal sliver you found in the thermostat... not sure.
Can you take a pic of this piece?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I think Racing Beat sells that plate....

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

That's what I originally thought too, but couldn't find it on their site.
I'll check again.

bay

looks like i'm going to have to do this one, has anyone in NJ done this and willing to help?

i've got a P2070 that came on once and awhile about a year ago, the car has had issues on and off with starting and stalling so it's not been driven much and i'd really like to see it on the road this summer without issues.

mazda wants to replace the intake manifold, which i would guess means removing and cleaning the SSV (else why do it?) for 2200$ parts+labor, which means dropping the engine all for this?..

i'm guessing you can't remove the LIM without dropping the engine? but in the case of P2070 and carbon buildup, is the carbon localized to the SSV + UIM? does the LIM get significant buildup at all? if so, how is it best to be cleaned without removing it?

what a headache.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

bay- Have you (or the dealer) actually verified the valve itself it stuck by attempting to cycle it?
Other things could cause this code including the solenoid, actuator, or impact switch.
I just want you to be certain before you tackle this (unless you really want to).

The $2200 will be for the whole intake manifold + labor... they won't bother trying to remove and clean the valve.
Sometimes its just easier for them to replace an entire component rather than tearing it down to clean/repair.

77mjd

Does the SSV get replaced if you are getting your engine replaced?