lawsorp_rx8

Hey guys I searched for this and couldnt really find anything on it, so here it goes.
get your car on a flat surface, make sure it does not roll either forward or backwards, let your car idle down as far as it goes, DONT push the clutch in, and try to put your car in 1st gear with out actually putting it in gear and see if your car rolls forward. mine does and if yours dont, should i be concerned?

Thanks Rob

StewC625

what is the possible knowledge to be gained from this? I wouldn't even think to try this.

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

i'm sorry...you're asking people to engage the car into 1st gear without depressing the clutch, and then ask if the car rolls????

Gomez

No, you should not be concerned. You should be happy that your brake pads are not grabbing on the discs, and your wheel bearings are in super nick. Your handbrake is also well adjusted. You are all set for maximum fuel economy!!

Gomez.

Parmer8

Yes, be very concerned. Why wouldn't your car move when it's in gear? Try it putting it in second gear and see what happens!

poorman

No he asking the opposite I believe. He’s asking us to push the stick almost into first gear without pressing in the clutch, and see if the car will move forward.

I'm not a good stick driver yet, but isn't it supposed to grind if you do that?

Rhawb

No, it doesn't grind when you do that...I haven't tried it in my 8 yet, but in my old Protege, it would seem to start engaging something (synchros?) and it would roll forward very slowly. I'd imagine this isn't something you really want to do very often since it just feels like something destructive to me, but yeah I think that's what he's talking about also.

sferrett

It's the synchro's trying to synchonize the gears - they're just rings inside the transmission to speed up or slow down the gear youre trying to change into to match the speed of the transmission so you can shift smoothly. The car creeps forward because the synchros are trying to speed the transmission (zero rpm) to match the engine rpm - also notice the engine speed drops a little as the load increases. You'd have to push pretty hard to get it in gear with the car stationary but if you tried you'd probably succeed or stall the engine. Doing this a lot would probably prematurely wear your sycnros and could cause grinding later on if they wear enough.

snap-on

Good post.

Why would anyone try to engage first gear with no clutch?

sferrett

Dunno - the only time I've done it was in my FC when the clutch line split and I lost clutch hydraulics. I was able to push it into gear and get the car home.

On my '8 I sometimes find myslef pushing the stick forward and creeping the car along a little - a very bad habit that I must get myself out of.

poorman

Dunno if this is right.

But i heard somewere that you could shift gears without the clutch if you do it at the proper RPM's?

Something ill never try to do but wondering is it possible?

SantozRx8

done that before in my saturn, but got a little cocky with it and grinded so i havent done it again

sco

Yes it is possible. YOu can try this non-destructively if you rev match and use your clutch. If you rev match you can tell when you've done it right because the stick shifts effortly into gear - because you're not relying on synchro. In theory if this is the case then you would have been able to shift gear without the clutch and without crunching your box.

In this scenario, the problem is when you're stationary the correct RPM to achieve this is 0 RPM because you want to match the RPM to for your current speed in the gear you're changing into.... so it's not achievable when stationary unless you have the engine switched off.

f1michel

shifting without clutch is veru easy going up gears, from 3rd to 4th is veru easy on the 8 and from 5th to 6th as well. It requires more skills going down as you need to use the gaz pedal to rev match but it's fun and very safe. try it 3rd to 4th 1st, accelerate in 3rd until you reach the speed you would normally shift then slide the shifter in neutral and keep a bit of pressure towards the 4th, as soon as the revs match it will slide right in with no grinding at all.

lawsorp_rx8

Well, I dont make it a habit of doing it. I was just at the drive thru and noticed that when i push my stick slightly forward(not all the way) my engine bogs down a little and the car tries to roll forward. i was just wondering if something might be out of adjustment. My car shifts fine the rest of the time 12K miles. For those of you who were helpful on this thread, thanks. for the ones who wanted to be a smart@ss well I hope that you never have a concern that you need advice on.

Rob

StewC625

I repeat myself ... why???

Shoving the gear to first with the engine running and the clutch out (engaged) is just going to grind like hell, and yes, it should roll as the synchros start trying to "spin up" the first gear to the engine speed - but again why why why? That really seems stupid. It's not testing anything but the owner's foolishness and willingness to do something that cause undue wear and friction in the tranny.

On the "shifting without the clutch" thing ... yes, easily done with a rev-match. However, it's a lot of hassle, and without the proper rev match, it just grinds the synchros, so again, it's a "why" thing ...although I admit to doing that now and again for giggles.

lawsorp_rx8

I repeat myself........

I'm NOT actually putting the vehicle into 1st gear. Please understand that. I just noticed it because I have owned several vehicles with manual transmissions before and this didnt happen. And another thing I love my car very much and would NEVER do anything to cause damage/harm to it.

Sorry for the confusion.

Gord96BRG

Right, so never do that again. Seriously. That is causing a huge amount of excessive wear on the 1st gear synchronizers. They are designed to controll the mass of the gear shaft only (speed up or slow down), NOT the whole car!!!

Think of it like driving down the highway with the cruise control set at 60 mph and pulling up the handbrake slightly. What do you know, the car wants to slow down a bit! Meanwhile, you'd be burning up the rear brakes. Sure, you can do it, but the car is NOT designed to do that and it is damaging to do it.

Regards,
Gordon

StewC625

Umm .. ok, I understand your concern. Still not understanding why you'd even think to try to put the car into first without the clutch in the first place, but hey, that's your burden to bear.

What kind of cars were your other cars? If they were front-driver's I'm not surprised - there's so much shifter slop in those cars due to the shifter being mounted remotely from the transaxle- this one, the lever goes straight into the trans and is directly pushing the shift forks around. So, much more direct action, also ability to exert more gear-grinding, tranny wrecking pressure.

khtm

Hey guys, can you try this?

Going about 9K RPM in 4th gear, drop it down to 1st and see if the transmission falls out on the highway. Mine did, but I just want to check if that's normal.

StewC625

Well instead of the tranny falling out on the highway, my engine flew out straight up from being revved to 20,000 RPM.

Anyone got a spare Renesis they can give me?

For the best dropping Tranny trick, try reverse. Of course there's always the collateral damage that occurs of ruined rear end gears, twisted u-joints and often a broken drive shaft, but hey, no one ever said fun was cheap.

khtm

hahahahah...so true! :D

QBallz

I've done this in a early 80's Thunderbird at about 35 mph, it was freaking awsome a defining CRACK the a Boom then heard some Tings followed by a thud and the drive line shot out of the car and ended up in a ditch by the road.

BTW I got the car for $40 from my uncle it was a repo that he couldn't resell on his lot, it was freaking awsome.

Also note that this WAS NOT on a public road.

Edit: I suck at spelling...

StewC625

I'm envisioning the scene from American Graffiti with the cop car ...

CLASSIC!

Q-chan

iTrader: (1)

Hm, covers only 50% probability... You need to repeat the test and see if the gearbox then ejects through the sunroof...