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Old 11-21-2011, 06:55 PM   #1
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DE No Crank, No Start, Good Battery, New Relays

I know there is a large volume of "won't crank" threads, but after reading dozens of them, no answers or threads fit the bill. And I noticed very few of them have any kind of real trouble shooting involved, So.... after driving under normal conditions, I parked it. Went to start the next morning and.... nothing. Power (dash lights)are there, but no crank. Starter does not engage. A "Click" is all I get (relay I think). I had a bad ignition relay a few months ago, same thing was happening, so I just replaced BOTH relays with new ones just to be sure (Relay part number L11067730 ignition relay). I have tested the battery (Optima Yellow Top) and tried to jump the car. Nothing/ Same. I have engaged the factory alarm (double lock "honk") and gone back & disarmed it. Car has fuel and new plugs (less than 500 miles) This is a A/T model, so no clutch trigger/ switch involved. (unless you count the brake pedal) (FYI- you have to hold down the brake pedal to start an A/T I believe) I have eye-balled all over the engine looking for melted wires/ shorts and found nothing.
Your constructive non-expletive ideas appreciated. My next thought is to pull the starter, but I was hoping to find a way to trouble shoot the electrical side beforehand, as I had no starter issues prior to this.
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Last edited by gothmogthebalrog; 11-21-2011 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:23 PM   #2
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Check the starter connections. Check all of your grounds, especially the chasis ground. Make sure your terminals are clean and tight.

Those are my first thoughts at least.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:43 PM   #3
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Checked, pulled and inspected all possible fuses, just to be sure also. Still no luck. I replaced the battery just to make sure it was not a load issue.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:59 PM   #4
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If you're getting a good solid 'click' from the actual starter relay, the next suspect is your brushes are burned out.

Jack up the drivers side, and rap the starter a couple of good bashes with a hammer. This will seat bad brushes, and if it starts after that, it's brushes for sure.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:07 AM   #5
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Starter Issue

Check this post out: Car wont start (Out of town and desparate)
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:32 AM   #6
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Attached to the starter is a solenoid. This is basically a large relay that also engages the starter gear into the flywheel ring gear. If that is what's giving you the solid, one-time click, when you turn the key... You need a new starter.

(The one exception is that if you have a bad connection with the positive battery cable at the starter.)

Like StealthTL said... Often, a smack with a hammer will get it to make a connection. Either way, you'll need a starter.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:48 AM   #7
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Still no luck- "Click" is definitely coming from the ignition relay, not the starter- tried rapping the starter a few times for good measure anyway. I've cleaned and re-cleaned the terminal connections and ground connections.

I noticed for the first time that my steering wheel does not lock when the key is removed. I am going to run through a few threads to see if this could be a symptom.

Found this- tried it, didn't change anything. Steering wheel lock disabled?

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Old 11-23-2011, 09:00 AM   #8
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i got the same problem i dont know wat it is but what i do is i take out the negative side of the battery n put it back on again , then my car start ahaha it be great to find the real problem
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:23 AM   #9
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just go have the starter tested.

and there is a range sensor/switch on your tranny. it will only allow the car to start in Park or Neutral. try starting it in neutral
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:45 AM   #10
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Do you have access to a test light or voltmeter? If so, see if you are getting power at the starter when the key is turned.
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:55 PM   #11
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http://www.hi-impact.org/ryang/modif...ineProblem.pdf

Scroll down to page 18.

However, I would check the voltage at the starter.

If you try and crank it, and the voltage drops, then the starter it's self is bad.

If you try to crank it, and there is no voltage drop, then it's something electrical. Could be the solenoid on the starter.

Measure Voltage Direct Current, with the positive lead of the DMM on the positive terminal of the starter. Negative lead from the DMM attached to the Negative terminal of the battery, or just a good ground.

If you question a ground, check it from the positive battery terminal, again on Voltage Direct Current, to the ground. It should read battery voltage if it's a good ground. Then check.

Hopefully that'll help.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:08 PM   #12
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I finally got the car up and pulled the starter. I found plenty of heavy green corrosion to clean off of connectors. When I have a 2nd person I can test the voltage at the connectors. Has anyone tried to bench test a starter? (In a Vice) If it's good, I don't want to damage it or the solenoid taping a battery straight onto it to see if it's engaging. I think that could also work as a test for the solenoid, maybe?

- Connected the ground and tapped the positive at the main connector- starter spins, but does not "jump forward" to the engage spot.

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Old 11-25-2011, 05:13 PM   #13
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When you connected the positive cable, was it to the large terminal on the solenoid , the one the battery cable is connected to, then jump the current to the smaller terminal , I think its a spade type terminal ?
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:28 PM   #14
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Just the larger terminal. Not sure of the smaller /spade style's purpose.
So I tried it- works fine. Starter engages/ spins. Thanks. Now to test if power is getting there.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:45 PM   #15
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Just so you know, the battery cable supplies current to the starter, but not until you turn the key to start, which in turn sends power to the solenoid , the small spade terminal , inside the solenoid is a copper plate , and when the solenoid receives power ,it pushes or pulls the drive gear and the copper plate makes contact with 2 post's inside the solenoid which causes the starter to spin. Sometimes the copper plate gets corroded or has a build up of carbon and prevents the solenoid from working properly, its not difficult to dissassemble and clean.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:38 PM   #16
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With the starter off and the 2 connectors loose, I put a voltmeter on the engine side of the ground connection and checked to see if there was current- there was. With the key forward the smaller solenoid terminal did also.

I removed the connector cable from the Solenoid to starter and cleaned it completely. Looks like the entire little cable could be bad from exposure/ corrosion. Cleaned and reconnected.

I sanded down the ring terminals to "shiny" and wire brushed off all of the corrosion/ carbon build up. For good measure I did the same for the entire starter assembly where it comes in contact with the engine/ ground, also wire brushing the housing where it sits against it. I reconnected the ring terminal to the starter and tab to solenoid.

To disable the door chime I had long ago removed a tab connector at the steering wheel (this was why the wheel didn't lock) I reconnected it to be sure it was not a cause.

I added a pinkie's worth of battery protector (dielectric?) grease to all the connections

Reconnected the battery- door chimes are irritating - put the car in neutral - car finally started up. (started a few times after warm up in park also)

Most irritating part of this is I still do not know EXACTLY what the point of failure was- battery, ground, connections, or ignition. I'll have to wait and see if this was any kind of real fix at all.
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No Crank, No Start, Good Battery, New Relays-img_0432.jpg   No Crank, No Start, Good Battery, New Relays-img_0433.jpg  
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:25 AM   #17
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Car wouldn't start again last week. Battery was dead. After troubleshooting through a few more threads I found I could test voltage at the battery to determine alternator output. My alternator was not putting out consistent voltage (12-14v). I pulled the battery and had it tested at Advanced Auto parts (free) The battery was still good. I found a used alternator online for $80. Found several threads about how NOT to get a refurbished one. It was pretty easy to replace. So, basically- the alt wasn't fully recharging the battery, causing low voltage which probably emphasized the poor grounds at the starter, even through the battery would pass a load test. I retested voltage with the used alt, and now have solid consistent voltage (18-20v), and much easier start-ups.
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:27 PM   #18
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Wait... You're getting 18-20v at the battery??? That's way too high and will fry your battery in no time. It should be around 14v. There is a voltage regulator inside the alternator that appears to not be doing its job.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:00 AM   #19
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It's the way I was reading the voltmeter. 10 settings with 4 lines. Sometimes I think I need a decoder ring.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:00 AM
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