epikeddie

Ok guys......

I'm a bit baffled by this one and I'm not sure how I"m going to proceed. Currently, we have tried de-flooding measures of every kind and determined ourselves that the motor was seized completely (broken seals and etc.).

We took it over to Mazda and they denied the engine core warranty. Their reason was that the car had an AEM cold air intake and they stated that the engine hydro-locked.

I've heard on numerous occasions that this was impossible to do. They then told me that there might a crack in the housing - which if I'm correct....is a part of the engine's core assembly which includes housings, rotors, and end plates.

What do you guys think?

If the car really did ingest that much water, can we get it out? De-flood doesn't work.....tow doesn't work.....any solutions?

gregs

iTrader: (7)

you could call them on it if you want, you could work with them on it and be willing to tear down(you authorize the tear down process) the motor and prove the engine is actually hydrolocked with water, if not then they will agree to replace your motor under factory warranty, from that point they may just do the motor for you or you will have enough evidence to pursue this with extra options (court)

gregs

iTrader: (7)

you said the motor is actually seized, how did you determine that? did you remove the plugs and visually see a broken apex seal or grooves on the rotor?

iLikeEatPoo

iTrader: (-1)

I always thought a rotary motor could never seize.

Razz1

Seized = can't move its frozen.

Please use the correct english terminolgy.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

AEM is the same as the MS intake which is covered under the warranty right? They have to show proof.

gregs

iTrader: (7)

mazdaspeed is actually is a completly separate division from mazda itself

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

yes but i believe the MS intake sold through the dealers is covered under the warranty so if it is the same as the AEM then...................

We had a local guy who went round and round with the dealer about this already and won. Dealer was trying to tell him the MS intake was not covered under the warranty.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

what dealership tried to feed you this nonsense?
hydro locking a rotary is not as easy as one might think; keep in mind people run tons of water through them from time to time to clean out the carbon.

how have you determined that the engine is seized?

epikeddie

They're saying it's hydro-locked.

I'm saying it's seized.

My personal thinking is that the motor starved of oil (evidence from the dipstick) and had catastrophic damage to the housings and the rotor is now seized against the housing itself. This is an assumption and what I'm concluding after I did the following:

- De-floor procedures per Mazda and this forum's instructions
- Towed the vehicle to try to start the car.
- Checked MAF
- Replaced OEM intake assembly
- Inspected Coils
- Inspected Plugs and Plug Wires

epikeddie

Jedi....

It was Mazda of Orange.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Could the tech be talking about carbon-lock?

But yeah, sounds like they are just giving you a BS line. Only possible way that the engine could fail due to an intake and water is if it ingested water, and then the water sat there until it corroded enough to keep it from running.



If water really is a problem, I have seen quite a few suggestions of putting AT fluid in the engine and letting it sit for 10-15 minutes and try starting again. Lots and lots of smoke, but the last story I saw on here about it, the RX-7 they had got water in the engine, and sat there for a few weeks. Couldn't start it. Put in ATF, tossed around a ball for a bit, tried starting it. It turned over finally, moved to deflooding procedure, and got it started a few minutes later. Smoke billowing from the tailpipes until the ATF was burned off. But running.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

have you tried talking to the service manager?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Well...oil starvation isn't covered under warranty. They will call that a lack of maintenance. Granted, they are blaming the intake, and THAT is BS, but if oil starvation is the issue, I wouldn't hold out too much hope.

You would pretty much have to prove that it had oil, and something with the internal oil system failed from a defect, and that isn't easy.

My Corolla's engine blew from oil starvation, and I could prove I had the maintenance. On tear down, they found that the primary oil injectors had failed from the excess sludging (Toyota recalled those engines for a fix due to excessive sludging a couple years later)

epikeddie

I'm calling MNAO right now to file a complaint.

I challenged their service advisor about the chance of hydrolocking a rotary. He told me he saw it ALL THE TIME lol.

And now MNAO has denied the warranty as well. They stated that is is indeed hydrolocked. How is that even possible and how would we go about getting this car back on the road?

New engine time?

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

If you remove a plug and check inside, is it filled with water..? Because there would need to be a shitload of water in there for it to "hydro-lock".

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

The only way to Hydro lock it would be to completely fill the compressed face of the rotor with water......The water would come out when you took out the plugs....so this is complete BS

The likelihood of the other problem causing the engine to seize is much higher...

epikeddie

Plugs were dry and surprisingly clean.

When we did remove the plugs, there was no water that poured out of the holes. They have officially denied the claim and placed blame on an AEM cold air intake. I'm going to have to request a review by the Regional Service Director for Mazda. They're going to send HIM to the dealer for further review.

Let's just hope that this guy is more knowledgeable about the rotary engines. It's quite scary to hear their tech's blame stuff they have no idea on.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

what a load of bullshit, no wonder Mazda has such a bad name.

what you should do is, ask and see if any local guys have the MS intake. When the "Region" rep is there, go visit with the 8 that has the intake. show it in front of his face that its 100% same ****. if they still said its different. then just tell them up the face watch a class action lawsuit its coming soon and trust me there are tons of lawyers willing to do it for free.

zoom44

what actions if any did the dealer take to make their determination of what is wrong with the motor?

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

tow-starting the car would remove the hydro-lock, if there is one.

you just rotate the rotors till the water is gone. very simple.

Mazurfer

Wait a second.............hold on here Eddie.

This is the Vietnamese guys car right? I think everyone should read this thread before getting into what is or isn't going to be covered.
I very much applaud all your doing to help this guy out, but the reality is.............he caused his own issues. We can't save them all ya know, and you've gone above and beyond the call of duty!

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/any-one-can-help-me-flooded-engine-190058/


Just to give you a clue of what's in that thread. I believe he ran it without coolant and oil, and drove into relatively deep water at that time right? Then.....it wouldn't even hold new coolant or water you tried putting in it.....correct?

alz0rz

iTrader: (41)

oh snap

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yeah... good luck, but I wouldn't hold out much hope.

trustbuddy

iTrader: (3)

this thread finally makes sense with that link...