Lack of power/rough running/stall when stopping
10-17-2015, 10:53 PM
#1
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Lack of power/rough running/stall when stopping
Hey guys,
I have occasionally had this issue when driving long trips (2+hrs) but as it always self-corrected once stopped for a bit, and I could never recreate the problem (on purpose), it has never been major, but it has gotten worse to the point where it seems to happen every other trip (short or long) and is eventually going to leave me stranded in the middle of a lane not being able to move (because I just flooded the engine/flattened the battery trying to re-start).
2004 Auto Transmission (Japanese)
New filter
New coil packs
New Plugs
New SSV Solenoid (had thought this would be the fix - but not, hence the post)
(No new leads yet - mainly because all symptoms pointed to the above...)
P0....whatever error code when checked (SSV Circuit is low). No CEL at any point.
Essentially I have an intermittent problem (increasing in frequency) that has all the symptoms of the SSV solenoid failing when hot. The car usually starts and runs fine, but sometimes after quite short trips (15km), and completely intermittently the car "bogs down" and starts to run rough.
Applying the gas keeps you moving (at any speed - has happened at 100kmh and I can maintain that speed) but that is pretty much it - it's almost impossible to pick up any additional speed unless you can keep the gas on. Going into high RPMs (7500 or so) at this stage was causing a hideous (engine/exhaust) noise, and symptoms that felt more like the engine was missing (though I have no idea what this would actually feel like in a rotary).
If you slow or stop the engine attempts to keep running with the RPM fluctuating between 600-900, but stalls when you stop.It is then very hard to re-start to the point where you have to crank the engine, apply gas (seems to be needed), and hope like hell it doesn't flood or drain the battery.
When it happens at low speeds this means trying to drive everywhere in 2nd and hoping you don't have to slow down too much or stop. I've found knocking it into neutral when still rolling generally stops it stalling completely (still has some fluctuations), and it at least means I can give it some gas this way.
As mentioned, it has new plugs and new coil packs. At this point I thought I'd found the solution with the SSV Solenoid, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference, happening again the next day after installing.
So, any ideas of what might be causing the issue? I'm I missing something obvious?
When it first happened I'd have said there was something wrong with the intake (just felt like that sort of restriction) or maybe a fuel blockage (I never actually checked this, mainly cause it seems very unlikely). So I was convinced that SSV was the solution when I found it, and it seemed to match up with the symptoms (though they were generally taking about temps around 30c - it's been winter here and even now at the start of spring the max is more like low 20s). It doesn't seem to have been the actual issue though (let's hope it actually was the middle one...).
Obviously I'd considered other issues like that perhaps the engine was missing and I just don't know what that feels like in a rotary - and if this is the case plug leads may solve the issue - but it seems that wouldn't have created the "SSV circuit in low" error - and this seemed to match the symptoms exactly.
So - ideas? Are there any (more) electrical connections that might weak and prone to heat failure? Something else obvious? What does a missing rotaty engine feel like?
I have occasionally had this issue when driving long trips (2+hrs) but as it always self-corrected once stopped for a bit, and I could never recreate the problem (on purpose), it has never been major, but it has gotten worse to the point where it seems to happen every other trip (short or long) and is eventually going to leave me stranded in the middle of a lane not being able to move (because I just flooded the engine/flattened the battery trying to re-start).
2004 Auto Transmission (Japanese)
New filter
New coil packs
New Plugs
New SSV Solenoid (had thought this would be the fix - but not, hence the post)
(No new leads yet - mainly because all symptoms pointed to the above...)
P0....whatever error code when checked (SSV Circuit is low). No CEL at any point.
Essentially I have an intermittent problem (increasing in frequency) that has all the symptoms of the SSV solenoid failing when hot. The car usually starts and runs fine, but sometimes after quite short trips (15km), and completely intermittently the car "bogs down" and starts to run rough.
Applying the gas keeps you moving (at any speed - has happened at 100kmh and I can maintain that speed) but that is pretty much it - it's almost impossible to pick up any additional speed unless you can keep the gas on. Going into high RPMs (7500 or so) at this stage was causing a hideous (engine/exhaust) noise, and symptoms that felt more like the engine was missing (though I have no idea what this would actually feel like in a rotary).
If you slow or stop the engine attempts to keep running with the RPM fluctuating between 600-900, but stalls when you stop.It is then very hard to re-start to the point where you have to crank the engine, apply gas (seems to be needed), and hope like hell it doesn't flood or drain the battery.
When it happens at low speeds this means trying to drive everywhere in 2nd and hoping you don't have to slow down too much or stop. I've found knocking it into neutral when still rolling generally stops it stalling completely (still has some fluctuations), and it at least means I can give it some gas this way.
As mentioned, it has new plugs and new coil packs. At this point I thought I'd found the solution with the SSV Solenoid, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference, happening again the next day after installing.
So, any ideas of what might be causing the issue? I'm I missing something obvious?
When it first happened I'd have said there was something wrong with the intake (just felt like that sort of restriction) or maybe a fuel blockage (I never actually checked this, mainly cause it seems very unlikely). So I was convinced that SSV was the solution when I found it, and it seemed to match up with the symptoms (though they were generally taking about temps around 30c - it's been winter here and even now at the start of spring the max is more like low 20s). It doesn't seem to have been the actual issue though (let's hope it actually was the middle one...).
Obviously I'd considered other issues like that perhaps the engine was missing and I just don't know what that feels like in a rotary - and if this is the case plug leads may solve the issue - but it seems that wouldn't have created the "SSV circuit in low" error - and this seemed to match the symptoms exactly.
So - ideas? Are there any (more) electrical connections that might weak and prone to heat failure? Something else obvious? What does a missing rotaty engine feel like?
Last edited by LupinS; 10-17-2015 at 11:48 PM.
10-17-2015, 11:41 PM
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Well, I had it in the shop for the last flood and while they didn't specifically tell me the results I'm sure they'd have mentioned it if compression was low (I'm not sure I even had a tester that'll fit).
Cat... considered but not really investigated - it really does feel like a air/fuel issue and the symptoms don't seem to match up. I'll do a little more checking though if it is possible that it can cause these symptoms.
Cat... considered but not really investigated - it really does feel like a air/fuel issue and the symptoms don't seem to match up. I'll do a little more checking though if it is possible that it can cause these symptoms.
10-18-2015, 12:21 AM
#4
Lack of power/rough running/stall when stopping
Checking engine compression isn't something most shops will do in regular troubleshooting.
Furthermore, the rotary engine requires a rotary specific compression tester. Read around the forums on symptoms of low compression.
Air/fuel does sound similar. Is your air filter clogged? Do you have any modifications at all?
Furthermore, the rotary engine requires a rotary specific compression tester. Read around the forums on symptoms of low compression.
Air/fuel does sound similar. Is your air filter clogged? Do you have any modifications at all?
10-18-2015, 07:30 AM
#5
Rotary Evolution
a new solenoid won't correct the other half of the SSV issue that i see, which is the valve in the intake sticking open or closed. if it sticks open then the symptoms do match a rough idle and no low end power but not a no start condition. high RPM hesitation does sound like a clogged cat but again not a no start condition. all related symptoms however could be related to an engine with compression issues. new coils also does not guarantee good coils, have them tested when the engine is misfiring to be sure all 4 are still working, an intermittent faulty lead coil would cause ALL the symptoms described.
Last edited by Karack; 10-18-2015 at 07:33 AM.
01-17-2017, 12:57 AM
#6
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Hi Guys,
Still having the same issues as above - give me some ideas!
Have just spent ages cleaning the SSV (which must have been barely moving at their was a lot of caked on crap) - but same problem.
No longer getting a SSV solenoid code (new solenoid) - but am now getting a VDI code (p0076) though this is a new solenoid too.
Can't find anything to suggest that the VDI not working would cause the low end bogging down and stalling anyway (though will order yet another one and replace it when it gets here).
Does feel like an air/fuel issue.
Cat - possible (I couldn't get it off when I looked at it a while ago) will try again, but not expecting it to help
I've seen a few fuel pump suggestions for similar issues - but I'm unwilling to just replace parts on the chance it might be the problem.
------------
To review the issue (as of today_
- Cleaned out the SSV. Seemed to be ok in the city, but once I hit the motorway and put my foot down bogged and struggled to get over 4000RPM (idled fine) - sounded very "throaty" even at low RPMs (hasn't sounded like this in a while - was hoping this meant the issue was solved)
- Checked for SSV movement when I stopped - hear a squish sound that suggested their was some cleaner in the diaphram stopping it moving freely
- Took it out about an hour later - no more bogging and seemed to be ok
- Drove for 15min at high revs over the motorway - seemed to be ok (maybe a little rough)
- stopped/started a few times back in the city with no problem (idle dropped a little low perhaps)
- Stalled out at lights soon after
- Checked SSV movement and seemed fine. Started with a bit of cranking 2-3 mins later
- Stalled out every time I had to stop after
- Doesn't stall providing I put it in neutral and continue to give it a little gas (hard to drive like this of course!)
Usually starts with no problem if given 5mins to "cool down" - needs cranking and gas before this
Usually fine unless 1. It's hot(ish) outside 2. Isn't rev'ed too high (tends to do it when I drive in manual since I rev it higher than the auto usually does) (or a combination of the two) - has been pretty much fine over winter, first hot day stuck in traffic and it was an issue again.
Got completely stuck in the road yesterday when the battery was too flat to crank it enough to get it to start without the 5min "cool down"- and it's just plain annoying anyway. Help me solve this! (though based on the number of similar threads where no one ever seems to figure it out I'm doubtful
)
Still having the same issues as above - give me some ideas!
Have just spent ages cleaning the SSV (which must have been barely moving at their was a lot of caked on crap) - but same problem.
No longer getting a SSV solenoid code (new solenoid) - but am now getting a VDI code (p0076) though this is a new solenoid too.
Can't find anything to suggest that the VDI not working would cause the low end bogging down and stalling anyway (though will order yet another one and replace it when it gets here).
Does feel like an air/fuel issue.
Cat - possible (I couldn't get it off when I looked at it a while ago) will try again, but not expecting it to help
I've seen a few fuel pump suggestions for similar issues - but I'm unwilling to just replace parts on the chance it might be the problem.
------------
To review the issue (as of today_
- Cleaned out the SSV. Seemed to be ok in the city, but once I hit the motorway and put my foot down bogged and struggled to get over 4000RPM (idled fine) - sounded very "throaty" even at low RPMs (hasn't sounded like this in a while - was hoping this meant the issue was solved)
- Checked for SSV movement when I stopped - hear a squish sound that suggested their was some cleaner in the diaphram stopping it moving freely
- Took it out about an hour later - no more bogging and seemed to be ok
- Drove for 15min at high revs over the motorway - seemed to be ok (maybe a little rough)
- stopped/started a few times back in the city with no problem (idle dropped a little low perhaps)
- Stalled out at lights soon after
- Checked SSV movement and seemed fine. Started with a bit of cranking 2-3 mins later
- Stalled out every time I had to stop after
- Doesn't stall providing I put it in neutral and continue to give it a little gas (hard to drive like this of course!)
Usually starts with no problem if given 5mins to "cool down" - needs cranking and gas before this
Usually fine unless 1. It's hot(ish) outside 2. Isn't rev'ed too high (tends to do it when I drive in manual since I rev it higher than the auto usually does) (or a combination of the two) - has been pretty much fine over winter, first hot day stuck in traffic and it was an issue again.
Got completely stuck in the road yesterday when the battery was too flat to crank it enough to get it to start without the 5min "cool down"- and it's just plain annoying anyway. Help me solve this! (though based on the number of similar threads where no one ever seems to figure it out I'm doubtful
)
01-17-2017, 02:17 AM
#7
You need to properly troubleshoot in order to diagnose the issue.
TEST the parts (fuel pump, cat, etc). Have you had compression checked? Have you checked plugs, coils and wires?
It's not that people haven't figured out their issues. Chances are that they just haven't come back to report or update.
TEST the parts (fuel pump, cat, etc). Have you had compression checked? Have you checked plugs, coils and wires?
It's not that people haven't figured out their issues. Chances are that they just haven't come back to report or update.
01-17-2017, 03:28 AM
#8
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What makes you think I haven't? I wasn't replacing and working on the other stuff for fun.
I'm now down to an unknown, hence why I'm asking. Do a search - not one person has confirmed a resolve for the same issue, and there are plenty of post about it.
I'm now down to an unknown, hence why I'm asking. Do a search - not one person has confirmed a resolve for the same issue, and there are plenty of post about it.
Last edited by LupinS; 01-17-2017 at 03:30 AM.
01-17-2017, 11:11 AM
#9
40th anniversary Edition
Sounds like you may have a fuel pump issue on top of everything else.
Engine Power Loss
• chokes as revs increase
o O2 sensor failure (too rich)
o MAF failure
o MAF disconnected
o e-shaft sensor fouled
o accessory belt fraying
• high end power loss (hard fuel cut)
o Rev limit reached
• high end power loss (jerky and stumbling)
o Ignition failure
o fuel pressure loss
o e-shaft sensor fouled
• high end power loss (smooth)
o Catalytic converter clog
o air filter clog
• low end power loss (smooth)
o Engine compression loss
• low end power loss (stumbles)
o Ignition failure
o front O2 sensor failure
• revs slowly but smoothly
o O2 sensor failure (too lean)
o catalytic converter clog
o air filter clog
• sudden power drop at a specific rpm
o Intake valving actuation problem
• trouble getting to redline
o Ignition failure
o front O2 sensor failure
o catalytic converter clog
o air filter clog
o e-shaft sensor fouled
o fuel pressure loss
o MAF failure
Engine Power Loss
• chokes as revs increase
o O2 sensor failure (too rich)
o MAF failure
o MAF disconnected
o e-shaft sensor fouled
o accessory belt fraying
• high end power loss (hard fuel cut)
o Rev limit reached
• high end power loss (jerky and stumbling)
o Ignition failure
o fuel pressure loss
o e-shaft sensor fouled
• high end power loss (smooth)
o Catalytic converter clog
o air filter clog
• low end power loss (smooth)
o Engine compression loss
• low end power loss (stumbles)
o Ignition failure
o front O2 sensor failure
• revs slowly but smoothly
o O2 sensor failure (too lean)
o catalytic converter clog
o air filter clog
• sudden power drop at a specific rpm
o Intake valving actuation problem
• trouble getting to redline
o Ignition failure
o front O2 sensor failure
o catalytic converter clog
o air filter clog
o e-shaft sensor fouled
o fuel pressure loss
o MAF failure
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