tskeltonPGA

ok so here's the situation...i have a 2005 rx8 manual tranny with almost 70,000 miles

i have a horrible grinding sound when the clutch is out...doesn't matter if the tranny is in gear or not

mazda "master technician" told me that it was the throwout bearing and the clutch probably needed to be replaced.

so I bought an ACT clutch, pressure plate and pilot and throwout bearings...replaced them...still the noise

so i come on here and search and call one of my buddies who works at a transmission shop...he said it sounds like the input bearing and couldn't believe the mazda guy said it was the clutch

so i think i'm going to have the input bearing and synchro's replaced

any other suggestions???
does this sound like what is actually wrong???
do i have grounds to go to mazda and tell them they misdiagnosed the hell outta my car (that i bought from them) and they need to refund me the 98 bucks i paid to have it misdaignosed???

thanks for all the help guys and girls

swoope

iTrader: (5)

who did the install of the act stuff?

if you put the transmission in neutral while stopped and push in the clutch what happens?

when did the sound start?

does it grind on the 1st to 2nd shift..

my first guess is the ppf is not aligned and the pilot bearing is bad.. it is often not replaced even thought you get a new one in the kit..

beers

tskeltonPGA

one of my friends (mechanic at a nissan dealership) and his coworker did the job

regardless of whether or not the tranny is in gear or in neutral there is NO noise when the clutch is depressed

no grinding on shifts

they supposidly replaced the pilot bearing

whats the ppf? pressure plate to flywheel?

it started about a month ago as a quite noise...well you know what..actually i heard kinda a loud "thunk" then started hearing the noise...quitely...until now where it has become a full blown loud *** crazy noise when the clutch is out...not depressed...thanks for the quick reply...any other advice is appreciated...they are gonna pull the tranny back out tomorrow to take to the tranny shop for me so if i could have a few things for them to check that would be much appreciated!

swoope

iTrader: (5)

the ppf it the power plant frame.. if they just pulled the trans and slapped in a new clutch and did not align the ppf you are some what screwed.. a non aligned ppf tends to vibrate or chatter, but what you are dealing with could also be a symptom...

also have you had the motor mounts replaced?

do you have a service manual?

beers

tskeltonPGA

no i do not have a service manual...you think the noise coming from the tranny could be from the motor mounts? why would the frame need to be aligned...and why would i be screwed? i will ask them tomorrow...

so swoope i take it you are not leaning towards it being something inside the tranny then?

TrochoidMagic

clutch fork...

has that been recommended to be replaced at the time of repair? if thats outta spec...what would it matter if the new throw out bearing is new or not? its still not a tight fit, and would be a contributor to some noise no?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

hard to tell without hearing the sound.. if the clutch is out it is not the to bearing.. it could be the pilot bearing.. compounded if the ppf is not aligned..

it is not the motor mounts, but if they marked the ppf and put it back where it was and the mm were changed the rules change..

give me a few and i will see if i can link the ppf directions..

beers

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i have to change computers.... how about you send me a pm with your email address and i will send you the pdf.

beers

tskeltonPGA

hard to tell without hearing the sound.. if the clutch is out it is not the to bearing.. it could be the pilot bearing..


i didn't necessarily get this part? what do you mean with "if the clutch is out it is not the bearing"?

thanks for all the help man

tskeltonPGA

nothing about the clutch fork...i can have them check when they drop the tranny tomorrow...i'll be up there when they do it...

so here's what i got so far

ppf not aligned
clutch fork
pilot bearing...maybe they didn't replace it

so nobody is really leaning towards the input bearing??? i guess thats good news...keep the ideas comin please...

swoope you have a pm

TrochoidMagic

input bearing, throw out bearing, pilot bearing...sounds like all the same to me. different name for the same part.

could maybe need an minor adjustment to work with no noise...maybe more. older cars with a cable clutch simply adjust cable. hydraulic may have some different adjustment if any is available.

have someone just have a once over at the system. could just be a clearance problem...but i can't believe a fork was not recommended with the repair procedure.

tskeltonPGA

its not a rattle tho man...it def. sounds like a spinning metal on metal noise

swoope

iTrader: (5)

are your talking about a shift fork? or the clutch fork?

the clutch fork is almost a no wear no replace ever item...

what are you going to adjust????

beers

TrochoidMagic

again...swoope, input/pilot/throw-out bearing...how many bearings are there in a clutch? they are in reference to the same piece thats connected to the clutch armature and is what separates them via the clutch fork.

and what does the motor mount have any to do with this? its not a clank/clunk on accel on/off issue that he's complaining of.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

http://foxed.ca/foxed/index.php?page=rx7manual

start there. then go down to rx8....

click on 2003 workshop manual..

left side click on transmission / transaxle.

that will open a new window or tab..

click manual transmission.

click transmission removal/instalation. it will open in the other window or tab.

all the info is there..

if you cant get to it let me know i will go back and email you the pdf..



beers

TrochoidMagic

it really sounds like simply a classic case of clearance issue you got there. the fork would need to come up with some clearance for the bearing to settle seated, and not be partial on/off the disc creating partial clutch disc contact at all times.

simply put, improper clearance= excessive wear and early clutch failure.
have it done right. and bring it back to the dealer.

tskeltonPGA

ok well here is a clip i found on youtube...wish i could get up there tonight and get something for you guys...but this is as close as i could get...its kind of a wierd video...and the noise is MUCH louder on my car than in this video...just notice how the noice sounds like metal on metal and a spinning...and the guys car is not moving
and notice when the sounds occurs and when he has the clutch pedal pressed or released

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FR6aXKu4EI

tskeltonPGA

my fault...i should have mentioned...i typed it on the first try but my computer messed up so i had to start the first post over...

the flywheel looks almost brand new...and the stock clutch looked like it was in good condition...actually still has some good use left on it...im hanging onto it in case i have any issues with the ACT clutch and pressure plate...so i repeat...and apologize for forgetting to mention it earlier..

THERE WAS NOT SIGNIFICANT WEAR AND TEAR ON THE CLUTCH...i replaced the clutch as per diagnosis of the mazda technician after he heard the sound he said...hey that sounds like the throwout bearing...which if that's what it was, the clutch would be worn out excessively correct? and it is not

swoope

iTrader: (5)

there are no bearings in a clutch. what does that have to do with this issue..

the pilot bearing is in the rear of the motor. that is what the imput shaft goes in.. could be a area of noise.. the t o bearing touches the clutch could be a area of noise.. the imput shaft has a big bearing that could be the source, but that has not been an issue before..

the clutch fork does not spin or have anything to do with anything if the clutch is out.

the motor mounts have a big to do with the ppf alignment. that has a whole lot to do with how the clutch and transmission functions.

so i guess if it is the clutch fork you win?

beers

TrochoidMagic

whatever you like calling it, or whatever the manufacturer prefers to call this piece... its the throw-out/input/pilot bearing noise.

in neutral-its a constant noise. and the noise stops as the disc is separated when the clutch pedal is depressed, right? right.

so i still don't get why the fork was not recommended along with the repair procedure. its whats controls this bearing... and how's the clearance and adjustments if at all performed?

tskeltonPGA

i'm wondering if they def. did replace the pilot bearing...the pilot bearing going bad wouldn't necessarily cause any excess wear or tear on the clutch right...or wrong? the noise def. sounds like something spinning...leaning towards a bearing right now...just which one...please god someone say they fucked up and didn't replace the pilot or release bearing and its not the input bearing in the tranny

swoope

iTrader: (5)

no.

if a throw out bearing is failing it will make noise when you push in the clutch.. it is a hi pitched squeal...

how loud is it?

beers

tskeltonPGA

ps...can we please not turn this into a dick measuring contest...i have been drinving my uncles beat up ford f-150 and can't take this bench seat much longer...i want my comfy bolstered seats that are attatched to my beautiful rx 8

tskeltonPGA

SWOOPE...def not a squeel...raw metal on metal spinning sound...like i said...can be heard from a good 100 yards away...oh yea...def. nice and quite when you push the clutch in...only noise when clutch is out

swoope

iTrader: (5)

get out you owners manual and read.. or start you own thread for advice..

beers