Engine vibration and power steering
12-17-2008, 04:14 PM
#1
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Engine vibration and power steering
2004 RX8 with about 18K miles.
My engine has been vibrating recently, and sometimes stalled when in idle. Then it developed an intermittent loss of power steering. I found that the 1-year old battery was bad, so I changed it. I then cleared all the warning lights, that wouldn't go off, using the trip reset and brake pedal methods.
I am now left with a car that runs fine, other than the engine still vibrates/shudders and above about 2000 rpm the power steering ceases to work, coming back on line when the revs drop.
I think that maybe I have an engine problem that could be loosening a connector for the power steering (?). Maybe its the ECU (?).
I'm looking for ideas before I tear into it or take it to the dealer (last resort, I'm a die-hard DIY guy).
Any suggestions, please?
My engine has been vibrating recently, and sometimes stalled when in idle. Then it developed an intermittent loss of power steering. I found that the 1-year old battery was bad, so I changed it. I then cleared all the warning lights, that wouldn't go off, using the trip reset and brake pedal methods.
I am now left with a car that runs fine, other than the engine still vibrates/shudders and above about 2000 rpm the power steering ceases to work, coming back on line when the revs drop.
I think that maybe I have an engine problem that could be loosening a connector for the power steering (?). Maybe its the ECU (?).
I'm looking for ideas before I tear into it or take it to the dealer (last resort, I'm a die-hard DIY guy).
Any suggestions, please?
12-19-2008, 11:22 AM
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The plot thickens.....
I went to re-run the OBDII scan (no fault codes previously) last night and the car electrics were completely dead, including the brand new battery. Based on previous posts I intent to remove the battery & battery box and check out the power steering connectors that I am told lurk somewhere underneath. Something is draining the battery, and I don't see any lights on inside the car.
Anyone know of any common problems causing such electrical shorts?
(Several readers of my first post, but so far no suggestions have resulted. Where are you, RX8 gurus?)
Anyone know of any common problems causing such electrical shorts?
(Several readers of my first post, but so far no suggestions have resulted. Where are you, RX8 gurus?)
12-19-2008, 11:36 AM
#3
Zoom Zoom....
First thought...
Have you tested the alternator? It is the only thing that is powered and rpm-related. Other than the speed-sensitive steering, that is. I am assuming that this happens in neutral above 2krpm.
If the vibration is not related to an alternator failure, I'm guessing is engine mounts. Not a big deal to swap out.
Also, when you reset the KAM, the car requires several drive-cycles to re-learn engine sensor profiles. It will probably run/idle poorly immediately following a full reset.
Please post some additional info.
Year / model
Mileage
Location (re warranty)
Have you tested the alternator? It is the only thing that is powered and rpm-related. Other than the speed-sensitive steering, that is. I am assuming that this happens in neutral above 2krpm.
If the vibration is not related to an alternator failure, I'm guessing is engine mounts. Not a big deal to swap out.
Also, when you reset the KAM, the car requires several drive-cycles to re-learn engine sensor profiles. It will probably run/idle poorly immediately following a full reset.
Please post some additional info.
Year / model
Mileage
Location (re warranty)
12-19-2008, 11:37 AM
#4
how is your serpentine belt, racked, worn? Could it be slipping and thats why your battery keeps dying and therefore all the rest of your electronics. Your alternator is not charing or running anything. Our powersteering is run off a electric motor instead of a traditional pump which i'm sure draws a bit of juice maybe this is why that went first. My 2 cents, i'm no expert though. Maybe this bump can find someone else. I know that the power steering has been a problem for more then a few people with our cars.
12-21-2008, 09:13 PM
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Vibration by Alternator?
I found with my Ohm meter that there is a "short" from the positive battery terminal to the negative terminal (battery removed). However, as I am not an electronics whiz I think this may be nornal, through windings or otherwise within the electrical system.
I inspected the black and while power steering connectors on the battery terminals and disconnected and reconnected the connector on the power steering unit itself. They all looked good, and none of them changed the apparent short across the battery terminals. I also discomnnected the light duty connector on the alternator, but not the heavy duty wire.
Essentially the non-electrician found nothing. I then did all the resets of the system and found that the battery warning light wouldn't go out. Long story short, the alternator was putting out 17 volts (should be about 15) while in the car. I removed it and took it to Checkers. It shook their machine and aborted the test. They said it was bad. $262.00. if they could confirm they have one. So I took it to Autozone. Identical test equipment. This time it ran for about 20 seconds (shaking somewhat less) and iluminated both fail lights. Rebuilt unit $149.99, 2 days delivery.
I am hoping the replacement unit will fix everything: Engine vibration, power steering (by correcting the voltage) and, of course the batter warning light. There are also numerous other lights giving erroneous signals. Hopefully all will be resolved. I'll let you know.
I inspected the black and while power steering connectors on the battery terminals and disconnected and reconnected the connector on the power steering unit itself. They all looked good, and none of them changed the apparent short across the battery terminals. I also discomnnected the light duty connector on the alternator, but not the heavy duty wire.
Essentially the non-electrician found nothing. I then did all the resets of the system and found that the battery warning light wouldn't go out. Long story short, the alternator was putting out 17 volts (should be about 15) while in the car. I removed it and took it to Checkers. It shook their machine and aborted the test. They said it was bad. $262.00. if they could confirm they have one. So I took it to Autozone. Identical test equipment. This time it ran for about 20 seconds (shaking somewhat less) and iluminated both fail lights. Rebuilt unit $149.99, 2 days delivery.
I am hoping the replacement unit will fix everything: Engine vibration, power steering (by correcting the voltage) and, of course the batter warning light. There are also numerous other lights giving erroneous signals. Hopefully all will be resolved. I'll let you know.
12-29-2008, 02:28 PM
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Bad Alternator
Update: The alternator that tested bad was replaced with the Autozone remanufactured unit (limited lifetime warranty - $149.99). Before doing this I had the power steering failing and resetting itself erratically (steering is really heavy when it's not working), the DSC warning light stayed on, the ABS light was going on and off..... a whole host of warning lights and system issues. Some of the warning lights would reset with the trip meter reset method and the 20 fast brake pedal stomps method, others seemed to persist. I thought that perhaps they would all clear up after a few drive cycles. Before finding the alternator was bad I had also replaced a one year old battery that had boiled over.
Anyhow, after replacing the alternator I was amazed to find that all of the warning lights, except for the skidding car (DSC) went out, without even driving the car out of the garage. The operators handbook actually gives the instructions on resetting the DSC light, which reset just fine.
Unfortunately, I still have the original vibration, which is quite pronounced at idle, in drive or reverse (not in park or neutral).
My next target for investigation will be the engine mounts. This car has only 18,000 miles and is driven very gently by my wife. I'm surprized that I even have to consider engine mounts. Maybe the Phoenix, Arizona desert heat and dryness has something to do with it. I have replaced several on my other vehicles, but at 80-100K miles, not 18K.
Lesson learned: Electronic systems can get really messed up if they don't get fed the correct voltage. Always make sure the alternator and battery are good before tearing into the other systems.
Anyhow, after replacing the alternator I was amazed to find that all of the warning lights, except for the skidding car (DSC) went out, without even driving the car out of the garage. The operators handbook actually gives the instructions on resetting the DSC light, which reset just fine.
Unfortunately, I still have the original vibration, which is quite pronounced at idle, in drive or reverse (not in park or neutral).
My next target for investigation will be the engine mounts. This car has only 18,000 miles and is driven very gently by my wife. I'm surprized that I even have to consider engine mounts. Maybe the Phoenix, Arizona desert heat and dryness has something to do with it. I have replaced several on my other vehicles, but at 80-100K miles, not 18K.
Lesson learned: Electronic systems can get really messed up if they don't get fed the correct voltage. Always make sure the alternator and battery are good before tearing into the other systems.
12-29-2008, 02:41 PM
#8
Good call on the engine mounts. The passenger side mount gets killed by the heat..they changed it in 05/06 or so with a different one with better heat shielding
Phoenix heat would accelerate this ....... so you could have premature failure there
Phoenix heat would accelerate this ....... so you could have premature failure there
Engine mount
12-31-2008, 12:29 PM
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TSB for Engine Mounts
For anyone interested, the Technical Service Bulletin for the new standard of engine mounts is # 01-021-06-1559. You can find it by doing a Google search for engine mount P/N FE01-39-040. Alternatively, you can contact me and I will e-mail it to you.
01-09-2009, 06:16 PM
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Engine Mount TSB
I ordered the engine mounts per the new TSB. Left and Right mounts were $200-ish, but the supplier couldn't give me a price for the third part of the new design, "the bracket". I told him to order it, anyway, as I needed it. Reply was "shouldn't be too expensive, after all its only a bracket."
Famous last words........ Yesterday he called me to say he had received two mounts and the bracket from Mazda and was shipping them. The bracket alone.........over $300 !!!! So that's $500+ to replace two engine mounts.....and that's doing it myself!!!! The car only has 18,000 miles since new (2004 model).
Does anyone have the address of the Extortion Dept. at Mazda? I think I'm going to write them a letter. Alternatively I could melt down the gold plating on the bracket and sell it......It is gold plated isn't it?
Famous last words........ Yesterday he called me to say he had received two mounts and the bracket from Mazda and was shipping them. The bracket alone.........over $300 !!!! So that's $500+ to replace two engine mounts.....and that's doing it myself!!!! The car only has 18,000 miles since new (2004 model).
Does anyone have the address of the Extortion Dept. at Mazda? I think I'm going to write them a letter. Alternatively I could melt down the gold plating on the bracket and sell it......It is gold plated isn't it?
01-09-2009, 08:58 PM
#15
I ordered the engine mounts per the new TSB. Left and Right mounts were $200-ish, but the supplier couldn't give me a price for the third part of the new design, "the bracket". I told him to order it, anyway, as I needed it. Reply was "shouldn't be too expensive, after all its only a bracket."
Famous last words........ Yesterday he called me to say he had received two mounts and the bracket from Mazda and was shipping them. The bracket alone.........over $300 !!!! So that's $500+ to replace two engine mounts.....and that's doing it myself!!!! The car only has 18,000 miles since new (2004 model).
Does anyone have the address of the Extortion Dept. at Mazda? I think I'm going to write them a letter. Alternatively I could melt down the gold plating on the bracket and sell it......It is gold plated isn't it?
Famous last words........ Yesterday he called me to say he had received two mounts and the bracket from Mazda and was shipping them. The bracket alone.........over $300 !!!! So that's $500+ to replace two engine mounts.....and that's doing it myself!!!! The car only has 18,000 miles since new (2004 model).
Does anyone have the address of the Extortion Dept. at Mazda? I think I'm going to write them a letter. Alternatively I could melt down the gold plating on the bracket and sell it......It is gold plated isn't it?
beers
01-12-2009, 06:16 PM
#19
So "ezduzit" your in Phoenix. Where about in Phoenix? You know we have a lot of RX8 nuts in this town.
The vibration sounds like the engine mounts are bad. I'm on my third set.
And the Power Steering is a normal thing here in Phoenix. The car gets hot and spits coolant out the overflow tank right on top of the harness connection on the steering rack.
There is a thread on it some where.
Is this car a MT or an AT?
The vibration sounds like the engine mounts are bad. I'm on my third set.
And the Power Steering is a normal thing here in Phoenix. The car gets hot and spits coolant out the overflow tank right on top of the harness connection on the steering rack.
There is a thread on it some where.
Is this car a MT or an AT?
01-22-2009, 01:54 PM
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Easy E1, sorry for the late response. I'm in Mesa (Gilbert/McKellips). The car is actually my wife's daily ride, hence the low mileage. She absolutely loves the car, but complains bitterly whenever I drive it, 'cos I "rev the engine too high". Its an AT, so revs are limited to 7500, not the 9K of the Manual Transmission.
I plan to replace the engine mounts this weekend with the new TSB mounts/bracket hardware that has now arrived. Mazda should offer some kind of concession on a car of this low mileage, even if if the calendar warranty has expired. I hate OEMs.
As you are local, do you know anyone in need of a factory-style rear spoiler? I installed one on my wife's car and have a another one, new, primed but not painted. I'm open to offers.
This is a good forum and it's also good to know locals, to share experiences.
Cheers!
Colin
I plan to replace the engine mounts this weekend with the new TSB mounts/bracket hardware that has now arrived. Mazda should offer some kind of concession on a car of this low mileage, even if if the calendar warranty has expired. I hate OEMs.
As you are local, do you know anyone in need of a factory-style rear spoiler? I installed one on my wife's car and have a another one, new, primed but not painted. I'm open to offers.
This is a good forum and it's also good to know locals, to share experiences.
Cheers!
Colin
01-25-2009, 11:08 PM
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Fixed the vibration!
I changed the engine mounts - fixed the vibration problem. Its a pretty straightforward DIY job. You probably spend as much time jacking-up the car and removing and installing the wheels. Once you have the wjheels off there is direct access to all the nuts and bolts. You have to manipulate the bracket to get it out, but it does come out without removing any other part of the car.
My only issue now is the $300 "bracket". Essentially its no different to the existing (pre-TSB) bracket except Mazda have added two small, bolt-on, bent metal plates, each about 1-1/8" x 3". That's it! Anyone handy, with a drill, hacksaw, a vice and a piece of thin gage metal can make his own modification in no time at all.
My only issue now is the $300 "bracket". Essentially its no different to the existing (pre-TSB) bracket except Mazda have added two small, bolt-on, bent metal plates, each about 1-1/8" x 3". That's it! Anyone handy, with a drill, hacksaw, a vice and a piece of thin gage metal can make his own modification in no time at all.
01-25-2009, 11:20 PM
#22
I changed the engine mounts - fixed the vibration problem. Its a pretty straightforward DIY job. You probably spend as much time jacking-up the car and removing and installing the wheels. Once you have the wjheels off there is direct access to all the nuts and bolts. You have to manipulate the bracket to get it out, but it does come out without removing any other part of the car.
My only issue now is the $300 "bracket". Essentially its no different to the existing (pre-TSB) bracket except Mazda have added two small, bolt-on, bent metal plates, each about 1-1/8" x 3". That's it! Anyone handy, with a drill, hacksaw, a vice and a piece of thin gage metal can make his own modification in no time at all.
My only issue now is the $300 "bracket". Essentially its no different to the existing (pre-TSB) bracket except Mazda have added two small, bolt-on, bent metal plates, each about 1-1/8" x 3". That's it! Anyone handy, with a drill, hacksaw, a vice and a piece of thin gage metal can make his own modification in no time at all.
skip it. diy if you want..
and good job!
beers
01-26-2009, 02:39 AM
#23
I changed the engine mounts - fixed the vibration problem. Its a pretty straightforward DIY job. You probably spend as much time jacking-up the car and removing and installing the wheels. Once you have the wjheels off there is direct access to all the nuts and bolts. You have to manipulate the bracket to get it out, but it does come out without removing any other part of the car.
My only issue now is the $300 "bracket". Essentially its no different to the existing (pre-TSB) bracket except Mazda have added two small, bolt-on, bent metal plates, each about 1-1/8" x 3". That's it! Anyone handy, with a drill, hacksaw, a vice and a piece of thin gage metal can make his own modification in no time at all.
My only issue now is the $300 "bracket". Essentially its no different to the existing (pre-TSB) bracket except Mazda have added two small, bolt-on, bent metal plates, each about 1-1/8" x 3". That's it! Anyone handy, with a drill, hacksaw, a vice and a piece of thin gage metal can make his own modification in no time at all.
02-02-2009, 07:06 PM
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New Bracket Recalled
Here is a photo of the modified bracket, but I am told it has now been recalled by Mazda. My suspicion is that it may be weakened where the bolts attach the brackets. If anyone has any further info on this I'd be interested.
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