snowrydr01

I was on my home home today doing my daily redline run after 15 minutes of warm up and it shut down right after 8k rpm. I have had a hiccup with the ssv before so i thought it was that until i realized i had no power at all and my tach was at 0. I tried to restart it while moving and had nothing. I pulled over to the side of the road and tried to restart it and it felt like when it had flooded before and didnt want to turn over easily.

its a 2005 with barely over 60k. coils have been changed religiously and just did plugs and coils about 500 miles ago. no CEL. ran great up until it didnt run anymore. no stuttering or rough idle. the ssv had been sticking so i had planned on pulling it apart this summer for a cleaning but i could feel strong power through the rpm range.

At this point the only thing i can think of is fuel pump with it shutting down so abruptly. engine failures from what ive read seem to show symptoms before happening and usually at low rpms or showing some signs ahead of time.

I already took tomorrow off to trouble shoot, any ideas? I was thinking to run the flooding procedure just for the hell of it?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If there were no odd noises, it's unlikely to be the engine itself. Fuel pump is a likely culprit. Typically, an abrupt shutdown under some sort of load without being able to restart does end up being the fuel pump. But it could be other things. If you can restart it after 20-30 minutes, then it is almost certainly the fuel pump.

When you say "and didnt want to turn over easily. " do you mean that the cranking speed itself was noticeably slower? If so, then it might be an electrical problem that cut off power to the ignition, fuel injectors and/or the ESS.

snowrydr01

it didnt start while moving, didnt start when i pulled off tot he side of the road, then when i treid it again waiting for triple A it was very labored and almost sound like it wanted to stop. At that point i would think it was the battery dying already since its a 1 year old red top and it would have only seen 30 seconds of cranking at best.

besides replace and try again, how can i test the fuel pump or ess?

I visually checked the ess when i did the plugs and there was no build up between the sensor and the crack that i would think could've caused a poor reading.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's unlikely to be an ESS fouling. The ESS was mentioned because if it lost it's voltage, the ECU wouldn't know when you inject fuel or trigger a spark, so it wouldn't do either. Fouling would most likely have some other stumbling interferance just before shut-off.

Basically, something abruptly shut down fuel and/or spark. It's still a bit unclear, but if the cranking speed itself was really really slow, then it could be a grounding problem that suddenly manifested, cutting off spark. Cranking over was allowing a thin amount of current to the starter, but not enough.

Alternatively, you could have a charging problem and you were running on the battery for a while, until it dropped voltage enough to cut out the injectors or ignition. If it is a charging problem, it's also most likely due to a ground connection loose/corroded, but there are a few other reasons.


Just a pair of theories. Again it isn't clear what you are actually saying about the cranking speed, so taking guesses about that still.

If it is a fuel pump failure, then you should be able to start up the car in the morning without much trouble (unless you do also have a battery/starter problem that is unrelated), because the fuel pump will have cooled off and started functioning again.

snowrydr01

So ill try to start it with jumpers this morning. If it fires up ill get a multimeter on the battery and confirm charging. If charging is good its likely to be a fuel pump.

If it doesnt start, ill run the deflooding procedure just to make sure im not trying to troubleshoot the wrong issue. But if it still doesnt start.......then what do I try?

snowrydr01

Well that wasn't promising, I went to start it jumped and it made half a turn then locked...

Ive flooded it before but at least then it turned over. This is like hydro locked resized stuck. Oil and temps were good when it shut down. Implying the plugs now to see if it will at least turn over without compression. If not I assume its a total write off

snowrydr01

Pulled the plugs and it still wouldn't turn over, I can hear the starter try but just wouldn't move. Ive never had starter problems and even if it was on the way out it should be able to turn over an uncompressed engine

MikeTyson8MyKids

iTrader: (1)

That doesn't sound good.

Maybe pull the starter, then try to spin the engine over by breaker bar on the crank nut.

You know for sure its internal to the engine only then.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

You do not have to pull the starter, just leave it neutral and you should be able to crank it over manually using the hub bolt

MikeTyson8MyKids

iTrader: (1)

If something in the starter is seized with it engaged....

snowrydr01

where is the eccentric shaft bolt? Was thinking of turning it backwards to see if it was maybe something wedged in an exhaust port

snowrydr01

Even yesterday when I tried to start it it was very labored, thismorning it made it a half of turn and then it felt terrible

MikeTyson8MyKids

iTrader: (1)

Largest pulley on the front. That nut in the middle.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

big bolt in the center of the "crank" pully. i think its 19mm. bigest pully, its the lowest one

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Make sure you try to rotate it in each direction. If one direction doesn't make any progress with semi-moderate force, don't keep cranking on it, try moving it back the other way. If something is wedged between the housing and an apex seal, you need to try to move it back off that, and not force it harder on.

snowrydr01

Its a shot in the dark, but what if the clutch failed and is staying engaged? And its trying to move the car?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, a clutch failure can cause random problems with engine rotation too, when my factory flutch shattered the metal shrapnel lodged in the starter nose, locking against the flywheel teeth, but it could still rotate back and forth a little bit. He needs to find out if the engine will move at all first.

snowrydr01

No go on turning it by hand

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Not good. I assume you tried both directions, and had the transmission in neutral?

MikeTyson8MyKids

iTrader: (1)

I think he has an auto. He mentioned tach at zero, didn't notice right away.

*ah nevermind*

snowrydr01

Yup, both directions and trans in neutral. Trans shifts through the gears fine so it doesnt feel like clutch failure

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If it's a seal wedged under another seal, it's obviously game over for the engine. But if it's a chunk of carbon wedged under a seal you may be able to recover it by disolving the carbon with a detergen.

It might be worth the $20 or so to order a USB borescope from Amazon to take a look inside the engine to see what it might be. I've got one, and am only 2 hours away, but I'm still re-assembling my MSM at the moment, so I don't know when I'd be able to come down with it.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like you lost the engine. How did it sound while you were cranking it? Even rhythmic pulses, or not?

snowrydr01

No crank, starting tries and lights dim. Prior to that each rotation was progressively slower like there was resistance somewhere

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

So it's not turning over AT ALL, by hand or starter?