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Old 10-13-2006, 07:02 PM   #1
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Clutch Noise when Idling. Goes away when clutch pedal pressed.

Not sure if this was already discussed, but please help!
When the car is idling I hear strange noise (sounds like bad bearings) coming from the clutch/transmission.
When I press the clutch all the way noise dissapears. When driving I don't hear it, but that is probably bcz of the external noise...
Next week I have to go to the dealer and need to know if it's a "well known issue"!
Please help or at least point into the right direction!
I live in Brooklyn NY, and dealer there (Giuffre Mazda) is horrible!!!
First they charge you diagnostic fee 2-3 times, keep your car at the dealership for 3 days and then say that this is your problem coused by abusal of the car!
Please help!
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:13 PM   #2
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I have same noise -pretty sure its normal . It's the release bearing .
Not sure why it make a noise though - I thought it was clear of the pressure plate fingers at idle .
Anyone know ?
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:55 PM   #3
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If it's squeaking, then it's the release bearing. I have a bad experienced with it when the bearing failed.

If it's the shattling noise or however you might describe it, it might related to the disk springs. I have a chance to look at the disk, I'm not sure how you called it, double springs disk? springs wrap within a string? From what I understand a sprung disk that have springs held together tight to lower the chattering when the clutch engaged. But the outter springs seemed to be loosed and are bounding/squiveling around probably during rotation. So when the clutched is enaged, the disk springs vibration would cause the noise. If you dis-engaged the clutch, the disk would come to a stop and the noise stop due to no ration on the disk. That's the only explanation I can come up with from observing the disk springs. And this is normal as claimed by Mazda.
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Old 10-13-2006, 08:51 PM   #4
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It's none of those things. It's called gearbox rattle and it's the noise the gears make while spinning without a load on them. It depends on the design of the transmission and it's annoying but normal. When you press the clutch in, the input shaft stops turning and the noise stops. When it's in gear, there's enough load on the transmission to keep the rattle quiet.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:29 PM   #5
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To lessen the noise, swap out your transmission oil with something synthetic such as red line or royal purple. This will also cut down on how hot it feels by your center console. Check the DIY board for deets.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:39 PM   #6
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Can you please put a link for this "DIY board " please!
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Old 10-11-2007, 03:34 PM   #7
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I have same sound too .. i just changed my clutch to a stage 3 , and it fkn still there .. i hate it!
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Old 10-13-2007, 05:10 AM   #8
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to all you're guys replies.

are you sure??? positively sure???

so this is a clutch problem. but when changing a clutch, a throw-out bearing must be carefully inspected as well as other clearances...such as fork and etc.

a good clutch is a good clutch is a good clutch. but changing that after its gone bad isn't gonna fix the other devices used to separate the pressure plate and disc under "extreme" conditions.

so few question for you is
--do you ride the clutch a lot?
--do you hold the clutch (semi disengage/engage)
--do you SIT through traffic lights in first gear holding down disengaging the clutch waiting until your light is green?

the thing i want you to see here is that you can have a damn good clutch disc, but the sub-components bad.

i.e. your brake pads can be fine, but sitting stationary while pumping your brakes like 10 trillion times and maybe...just maybe your master cylinder piston seals will beat your pads in needing replacement. get the drift?

so in essence, change clutch disc with throw out bearing and pressure plate. just the whole pkg to save your ***. doing the shortcut is like doing the timing belt without doing cam seals, main seal, h20 pump, etc. same as example above.
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Old 10-13-2007, 05:26 AM   #9
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erico: its not normal.

running royal purple or any clean gear oil will always be good for the tranny. do it regardless. but that is not the fix for the problem.

--(changed disc, but the noise is still there??? i fkn hate it!)--
did you have your pressure plate upgraded to a stronger one? better pressure plate along with new throw-out bearing(shift fork inspected too) may yield better results then just good disc material alone.
think of it as a 2 piston caliper(as your pressure plate) clamping down on some metalic pads(clutch disc). you're weak link is the calipers here.
than if you have say: 6 piston caliper(press plate) clamping down on just semi-metallic pads... see what i'm saying?
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My Reason:
When i walked into each dealership i saw at least 5 guys walking around n' checkin' out either a z, g35, evo and subi. When i saw the 8 i saw 10 girls walking around it, touching the curves...it was pretty much a no brainer on who's attention i wanted to get
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Old 10-13-2007, 04:59 PM   #10
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ok to clear this up.

if you put in the clutch and the sound goes away, it is gear rollover. it is normal. changing the oil will not change the noise...

if you put in the clutch and then it makes a noise it is the throwout bearing..

beers
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Old 10-13-2007, 09:59 PM   #11
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So, does anyone know if the sound of the transmission in neutral is indicative of all Aisin AZ6 transmissions or just the RX-8 application?

I also do want to mention that I did change the gear oil over to Mobile 1 Synthetic gear oil and it did nothing for the sound (just like swoope pointed out) - although I didn't expect it to; I changed the gear oil to improve the smoothness of shifting.

Cheers!
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:21 PM   #12
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So, does anyone know if the sound of the transmission in neutral is indicative of all Aisin AZ6 transmissions or just the RX-8 application?

I also do want to mention that I did change the gear oil over to Mobile 1 Synthetic gear oil and it did nothing for the sound (just like swoope pointed out) - although I didn't expect it to; I changed the gear oil to improve the smoothness of shifting.

Cheers!
i think it is more an issue with a transmission that is so close to the driver...

beers
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:23 PM   #13
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If it goes away when you just put a little bit of pressure on the clutch pedal, then it's probably the throwout bearing. That noise has a long history going back at least to 1989 Miata (Aisin Trans). A moderate amount of noise is normal. If it sounds like you're bathing a cat, have it looked at.
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:36 PM   #14
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Release bearings ("throw-out" bearings) make more noise when the clutch is depressed if they are failing.
It is the pilot bearing that makes less noise when the clutch is depressed.

The Aisin is simply noisy. Live with it.
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:43 PM   #15
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ahh.. I've also read that some get dust inside them and the Mazda dealer squirted some lube up there to fix it.
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stask1 View Post
Not sure if this was already discussed, but please help!
When the car is idling I hear strange noise (sounds like bad bearings) coming from the clutch/transmission.
When I press the clutch all the way noise dissapears. When driving I don't hear it, but that is probably bcz of the external noise...
Next week I have to go to the dealer and need to know if it's a "well known issue"!
Please help or at least point into the right direction!
I live in Brooklyn NY, and dealer there (Giuffre Mazda) is horrible!!!
First they charge you diagnostic fee 2-3 times, keep your car at the dealership for 3 days and then say that this is your problem coused by abusal of the car!
Please help!
Hey, Do you wanna meet up ?

Since you're in Bklyn, I am looking to take my transmission down to do some work, maybe we can do it together, I have all the tools already. but it sucks to work alone ...

oh btw, I've never been to Giuffre Mazda, but I've heard NOTHING BUT SHIT from that dealer, yep they give customers bullshit and charge them for no reason. Dont go there.

if your car is bone stock, I suggest you to take it to Great Neck Mazda, sure I kinda hate them too, but they dont give you too much bullshit on warranty work (for a bone stock car that is)

New Yorker(one of our forum member) recommend Wayne Mazda in NJ, he said nothing but good things about them, so you might want to give them a shot.

and No Im not Crazy!

So, if u're interested, shoot me a PM and we work the timing out.
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:14 PM   #17
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ok to clear this up.

if you put in the clutch and the sound goes away, it is gear rollover. it is normal. changing the oil will not change the noise...

if you put in the clutch and then it makes a noise it is the throwout bearing..

beers
*Sigh*

I have that noise, its getting louder so I need to get the work done on my Tranny asap.

I start having this throwout bearing noise like 5 days after the crappy shop did the Clutch swap, he probably over torque something and **** it up.
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Release bearings ("throw-out" bearings) make more noise when the clutch is depressed if they are failing.
It is the pilot bearing that makes less noise when the clutch is depressed.

The Aisin is simply noisy. Live with it.
I read this post and I would like to clear this up as there was some mis-information presented here. Diagnosing something without tearing it apart can be tricky, but there are certain things you can do to figure out what's going on, but first you need to know the basic mechanics of how something works in order to do it.

You guys actually have the whole TOB thing backwards. Throwout bearings tend to make noise when the clutch is engaged(pedal fully up) and the noise will go away when slight pressure is applied to the clutch pedal....this is because when the bearing wears out it loosens up and worn or defective bearings make noise but when slight pressure is applied to it, it forces the bearing's internals back together again the noise will diminish. When the clutch is engaged(pedal up) the throw out bearing sits in the clutch fork which is stationary and slightly rests against the fingers of the pressure plate which is rotating and can present an audibale noise in a defective bearing.

A bad pilot bearing(which is rare) will make noise when the clutch is disengaged(pedal pressed fully down)....this is because the flywheel is rotating while the input shaft is stationary. When the clutch is engaged(pedal up) the flywheel and input shaft spin together, thus there is no way for it to make noise while the clutch is engaged. Now as a side note when pilot bearings are going bad they usually make thier noise as the clutch is being engaged(while releasing or slipping the clutch) and they make a sqreaching noise almost like tires faintly squealing. It's an unmistakable noise if you ever hear it.

These are the same simple principles you can follow for determining if a wheel bearing is going bad. Driving straight you will hear the growling noise but the noise will diminish if you swerve.

It's also best to ALWAYS use the OEM bearings when replacing your clutch. For those of you who are/were skaters or rollerbladers know the difference between a quality set of bearings and a knock off set. The crappy knock offs are ALWAYS loud and rough!
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:41 PM   #19
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^^ Nice write-up.
Bad info.

A worn TB will do what you proscribe. A bad bearing does what I pointed out.
TB seldom live long enough to wear out.

The PB will grind when you press the clutch and stop once the input shaft is stationary.
While it is loaded, it won't make noise. It only does so when it is spinning unloaded.
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:49 PM   #20
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The racket is normal...

Had this been an actual problem, useful instructions would have followed...

You now have 30 minutes to reach minimum safe distance...Have a nice day...
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Old 10-16-2007, 05:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
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^^ Nice write-up.
Bad info.

A worn TB will do what you proscribe. A bad bearing does what I pointed out.
TB seldom live long enough to wear out.

The PB will grind when you press the clutch and stop once the input shaft is stationary.
While it is loaded, it won't make noise. It only does so when it is spinning unloaded.
I have to disagree with the statement that a throwout seldom live long enough to wear out. I replaced many throwout bearings before a clutch has even worn out and most of them are loose and junk.....some of them you can actually pull apart with your bare hands. I'm not typing this stuff up in theory. I'm typing it up on the actual mechanics of how the clutch assembly works and my experience as a technician in the field. I have yet to come accross a throwout bearing that makes more noise when the clutch is being disengaged.

It seems a lot of people on here are having problems after a clutch install. Once again I stress to ALWAYS use OEM bearings even when installing an aftermarket clutch and pressure plate. If the clutch you bought comes with bearings, toss them in the garbage where they belong.
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Old 10-18-2007, 12:13 AM   #22
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So would a worn throw out bearing cause a very loud whine under load and through the entire RPM range? The whine disappears when the clutch pedal is pressed (disengaged) but returns when released whether it's in gear or in neutral and get progressively louder based on RPM.
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Old 10-18-2007, 12:19 AM   #23
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So would a worn throw out bearing cause a very loud whine under load and through the entire RPM range? The whine disappears when the clutch pedal is pressed (disengaged) but returns when released whether it's in gear or in neutral and get progressively louder based on RPM.
no.

if the clutch is not engaged the throw out bearing is pretty much out of the loop..

beers
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Old 10-18-2007, 12:20 AM   #24
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I have to disagree with the statement that a throwout seldom live long enough to wear out. I replaced many throwout bearings before a clutch has even worn out and most of them are loose and junk.....some of them you can actually pull apart with your bare hands. I'm not typing this stuff up in theory. I'm typing it up on the actual mechanics of how the clutch assembly works and my experience as a technician in the field. I have yet to come accross a throwout bearing that makes more noise when the clutch is being disengaged.

It seems a lot of people on here are having problems after a clutch install. Once again I stress to ALWAYS use OEM bearings even when installing an aftermarket clutch and pressure plate. If the clutch you bought comes with bearings, toss them in the garbage where they belong.
well not so much with the rx8..

beers
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:52 AM   #25
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So would a worn throw out bearing cause a very loud whine under load and through the entire RPM range? The whine disappears when the clutch pedal is pressed (disengaged) but returns when released whether it's in gear or in neutral and get progressively louder based on RPM.
Are you experiencing this in your 8 or another vehicle? If it is in your 8 does the noise dissapear when in 5th gear? If another vehicle, what make/model and is there a certain gear the noise goes away in?
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:52 AM
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