zoom44

it's in the canzoomer forum here . he states the low numbers on the first 2 runs are with the cz on and the igher numbers of the next 2 runs are with it off. didn't want anyone to miss this. something is squirrly here.

rotarygod

If he dyno'd 213 stock, that would put the engine right around the 238 hp mark or so. We all know the engine can do it. That isn't even a question. It'll exceed that easily. The question is where did he get an ecu tuned like that? I won't raise the bs flag. I think it is crap when people raise the flag before results are shown and then don't believe it when they see it. If you won't believe a dyno chart, what will you believe? I remember the same thing happeneing a year ago with Rotary Extreme and their dyno charts. Remember there are some pretty big variances between dyno readings, even here in the U.S. Some people dyno in the low 170's and others hit the mid 190's. Most stay in the mid 180's. Even the M flash is at best, pathetic. Maybe there is something to the European tuning that we don't know about. Even if we saw his a/f ratio, it wouldn't tell us anything useful. We'd also need to see his leading and trailing timing splits and advance. The stock timing is retarded below 4000 rpm. Why I have no idea. I always have mine at 25 degrees advanced at this point. Instead of saying he is lying or there is an error, why don't we figure out why his car is o powerful. Don't be so quick to dismiss results if they are better than what you expect.

zoom44

thanks rg for getting us on the right track. my interest in the a/f is to see where his is at compared to what the c/z map "should" make them. thats a big drop. if he has cz 1.1 there should also be some ignition avance dialed in by the unit. i dont know how the cz changes the timing- does it say "move timing to x" or does it say "move timing by +1"? the first wouldnt change anything if that is where the timign is already set. the second way could advance the timing too far, yes? causing the "lag" he describes below a certain rpm?

zoom44

ah well here is one bit of news. im glad i asked the question:

Magic8

Wasn't the Euro version suppose to be rated at 228 hp at the crank or something like that? So 212 hp at the wheel put him in the U.S. version range (supposed U.S. rating.)

zoom44

read my quote of him above.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

umm yea... bhp is brake horsepower or power at the crank

rotarygod

Since it is basically figuring out fwhp that seems to make more sense. See the dyno wasn't bs! We just didn't have all the info. What is strange is that the Canzoomer dyno'd less but this has happened before on certain cars.

abbid: Please don't think I was being agressive to you. I wasn't but it probably came out that way. If you were offended, I apologize.

Gord96BRG

ummm NO. BHP is brake horsepower, but the "brake" just refers to the type of dynamometer used to measure the power. A brake dyno can measure flywheel or wheel hp, depending on where they measure! Dynojets and similar are inertial dynos, and only measure wheel hp, so they have to back calculate (through coastdown power loss measurements and estimated formulas) flywheel hp. Manufacturers report SAE Net HP, and the definition of SAE Net testing procedure is that it is measured at the flywheel under very controlled and specific conditions (on an engine brake dyno).

Engine manufacturers love to report flywheel HP, of course, because it's a bigger number. It's somewhat meaningless, though, because all that matters is the wheel HP. Who cares if you make 500 HP flywheel, but only 120 HP at the wheels? If I make 300 HP, I lose bragging rights, but when I get 200 HP of that 300 at the wheels, then my 300 hp car will blow away the 500 hp car. Wheel HP is all that matters, and back calculating/guessing engine HP from an inertial dyno measurement at the wheels is only an ego exercise.

Regards,
Gordon

nite crawler

I was just thinking about that yesterday. I really do wish everyone stated power to the wheels. Or better yet, the torque/HP curve from a wheel dyno. Even big HP numbers are decieving. And now we live in a world where people can state FALSE flywheel numbers. Cough. Cough. MAZDA. Bastards.

Kinda sux that this thread was all confusion. I wanted that car to have 213 at the wheels.