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I'm pretty set on attempting a rebuild. I know that I can't be sure of what I need until I open it up but I'planning on replacing all seals and gaskets and go from there. If that is not necessary, please let me know. I really only see people talking about different apex seals occasionally so I'm assuming the rest is mostly standard. I'm not looking to build a race engine, I may try to turbo someday but mostly I just want to renew the life of my car. It has 90k on it and I'm starting to see symptoms of low compression.
First things first, you must open the engine to see what hard parts you will need. The Atkins master kit comes with most of the seals you'll need as well as extras you likely will not need. Such as gaskets for the long block.. Intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, oil pump chain, etc which can be reused.
Inspect and make sure long block gaskets to be sure they're reusable. The Atkins basic engine closing kit comes with what you need to get the shortblock together, basically all your vital soft seals. Minus the oil control rings and supporting seals/springs.
No matter what rebuild kit you go with you will want to order oil control rings, oil control O rings and Springs. as well as oil scraper rings and scraper ring springs (specific to the renesis) as 99% of rebuild kits I've seen do not include them. Some say they are re-usable. But why re-use any soft seals when rebuilding an engine?
At the very minimum you're gonna need the basic engine closing kit from atkins or put together your own with all the internal seals. Then get the oil control seals/springs seperately. If you need the external/long block gasket kit get it as well. Hard parts (rotor housing, rotors, irons) you will need to spec to see what you need to replace or reuse.
It looks like with the closing kit, oil control rings, oil scraper rings, and scraper ring springs, it's about $1200. That's a couple hundred less than what I was expecting. Now I just need to open it up and see if I need to spend twice that much or not.
I wouldn't buy **** from Atkins and if you do make sure it's not the Cryo treated Apex seals (which they don't stand behind btw). Look at Racing Beat, Rotary Aviation, Pineapple Racing, Mazdatrix, etc.
I wouldn't buy **** from Atkins and if you do make sure it's not the Cryo treated Apex seals (which they don't stand behind btw). Look at Racing Beat, Rotary Aviation, Pineapple Racing, Mazdatrix, etc.
Wondering why too? Alot of the guys on 7club are using them without a hitch. I wouldn't mind using the rest of their kit but yeah personally I'd use different apex seals mainly for lack of info. I tried inquiring about the "black satin" apex seal they released for the Renesis. Supposedly "harder than Mazda seals and impregnated with dry lube" whatever that is.. And I got a email back that said its fine for reliability and none of their seals would wear the housing... pretty general response.
You can search here, others (Dannobre is one off the top of my head) here and on 7club have had similar issues.
But basically my buddy bought cryo treated apex seals and a rebuild kit from Atkins. He used new housings, new eshaft, all news seals, etc. He has a background in engineering and machining and so he had the skillset and tools to spec every part out except one, the brand new cryo treated apex seals from Atkins. He built the engine and when it was finished it would not hold idle. We racked our brains but everything was installed right and working properly.
So we pulled the engine right away and tore it down. The brand new Apex seals were scalloped in the middle. He sent pics to Dan at Atkins and was met with nothing but BS excuses about how they were not that way when shipped, he check every one himself, blah, blah, blah. Keep in mind this engine literally had zero miles on it.
Long story short, my buddy didn't care to dick around with Atkins any longer so he replaced the apex seals with new OEM apex seals and reassembled the engine and it has been running great for four years.
But of course the OEM parts they sell will be fine, I just personally would not order from them after seeing how they dealt with my buddy who had ordered a few thousand dollars worth of parts from that at that point. But if you do order treated seals or anything else they make then make sure you spec each part even if it is new.
Thanks for adding the picture, I wasn't sure what you meant exactly. I'm getting the impression that OEM is the safest route for reliability. Is there a confirmed aftermarket apex seal that is known to be better?
Not in my opinion. Most of the legit (who I consider legit anyway) builders I know of only recommend OEM seals on the Renesis. I am four years boosted on a Pineapple Racing built engine using only OEM seals. The build is more about the experience of the builder though IMO. Which is why I will help others if they choose to rebuild their own engines but for me personally I won't rebuild my own Renesis. There is just too much room for error and these engines are delicate enough when boosted so for me it doesn't make sense even though I have rebuilt engines is almost every other car I have owned.
But that is a personal choice, there is definitely a ton of satisfaction in doing it yourself successfully and I can appreciate that.
As long as you have the money to support it go for it. There are several specialty tools you need to buy to spec the parts out, building the engine requires an additional set of tools. your basic rebuild kit can be in the 1500 range or more, you need to include new housings ($1500) usually as well. At the end of the day you could spend close to $4,000. So at that point you are better off getting it professionally rebuilt.
At least in the beginning, the Atkins kit shipped RX7 seals with the RX8 rebuild kit. If anyone were to buy with them should see if they updated the kit.
At least in the beginning, the Atkins kit shipped RX7 seals with the RX8 rebuild kit. If anyone were to buy with them should see if they updated the kit.
After Having a 'reputable' engine builder rebuild my TurboII Motor, only to have a folded water seal and crushed needle bearings right off the bat, my only option at the time was to rebuild it myself..I did so, and the car ran great...I did have the plates lapped to make sure the oil rings sealed as well as the corner and side seals didn't skip...It was a great experience and source of pride. Follow the videos that are out and take your time. Unfortunately time is something I don't have much of anymore, so a MazMart Improved Remanufactured motor or a Pineapple Racing rebuild will be a next step for me. However, my Reman only has 25k miles on it now...
Rick Engman once told me to only buy Mazda parts for cars that are run on the street...Since he builds 4 Rotors that have won the 24 hours of Daytona, I trust his judgment...
Last edited by Quicker10u; 12-17-2015 at 03:35 PM.
Reason: Blah.
Care to share who this builder was? It might save someone else a head ache.
Keep in mind that this was 2001-2002 ish. His name was Guch Lazardi and his shop was Guch's Motorsports in Columbus, GA. I was living in Atlanta at the time and Rick was covered up with Jim Downings ALMS effort and not able to help me (he did after Guch's rebuild blew up by checking my rotors and housings, lapping my irons, etc.) I actually filed a suit against him in small claims court and instead of facing me, he closed up shop and moved (FL last I heard). True scumbag, but everyone in Atlanta recommended him at the time.
A sad but familiar story in rotary land. That sucks man, my buddy ended up with a $10,000 paperweight after BDC (Brian D. Cain) built him an engine that idled for all of about 5 minutes.
A sad but familiar story in rotary land. That sucks man, my buddy ended up with a $10,000 paperweight after BDC (Brian D. Cain) built him an engine that idled for all of about 5 minutes.
Yikes...I wasn't into it for that much $$ luckily...It was a lesson learned the hard way, but I would have never had the opportunity to learn how to rebuild it myself and use mass quantities of Vaseline in the process. LOL.
I look back on it now as positive thing, and as you can see by what I drive, it still has not turned me away from the pistonless engine...
10-01-2015, 06:21 PM
