Synthetic Oil and the Renesis Engine
11-16-2003, 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by RX7FD3
Here it is. a simple explanation.
Rotary engines use small amounts of oil to lubricate internal parts, yet at the same time oil needs to be burned efficiently out of the combustion chamber to prevent carbon and residue build up.
Synthetic oil will burn but it just takes longer to burn causing the seals to stick.
Where as non-synthetic will get in there and lubricate and when it needs to be flushed, it will burn faster and more effciently out of the combustion chamber.
Petit racing has an additive called Protek-R that helps to do so wether you are using non-synthetic oil or synthetic oil. That additive lets you keep your choice of oil and still keep that rotary engine alive for many years to come.
Here it is. a simple explanation.
Rotary engines use small amounts of oil to lubricate internal parts, yet at the same time oil needs to be burned efficiently out of the combustion chamber to prevent carbon and residue build up.
Synthetic oil will burn but it just takes longer to burn causing the seals to stick.
Where as non-synthetic will get in there and lubricate and when it needs to be flushed, it will burn faster and more effciently out of the combustion chamber.
Petit racing has an additive called Protek-R that helps to do so wether you are using non-synthetic oil or synthetic oil. That additive lets you keep your choice of oil and still keep that rotary engine alive for many years to come.
So new clearances, rotor apex seal tolerances, etc, etc, etc. have the same to do with the RX7?
NO THEY DON'T!
So I should I just drop an early 13B in my RX8 and then agree with you? If I do that , and run Synthetic, will you pay for any non-warranty issues that arise?
11-16-2003, 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by RX7FD3
Yes im talking about apex seals.
You will start noticing that you are burning more oil than usual. When starting you will notice black smoke rather than white that tends to be normal for rotary engines
You will also notice the lack of power or your car just simply wont run.
The only other seals that might go bad are o-ring coolant seals, but those usually go bad because of overheating, or with high mileage.
Yes im talking about apex seals.
You will start noticing that you are burning more oil than usual. When starting you will notice black smoke rather than white that tends to be normal for rotary engines
You will also notice the lack of power or your car just simply wont run.
The only other seals that might go bad are o-ring coolant seals, but those usually go bad because of overheating, or with high mileage.
My tail pipe are EXTRA black, and my power actually seems to be down for this cold time of the year.
If there was a way to block your comments, I'd enable it!
This thread ROCKS!
11-16-2003, 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by syntrix
Here's a simple explanation... RX8 Renesis is different than RX7.
So new clearances, rotor apex seal tolerances, etc, etc, etc. have the same to do with the RX7?
NO THEY DON'T!
So I should I just drop an early 13B in my RX8 and then agree with you? If I do that , and run Synthetic, will you pay for any non-warranty issues that arise?
Here's a simple explanation... RX8 Renesis is different than RX7.
So new clearances, rotor apex seal tolerances, etc, etc, etc. have the same to do with the RX7?
NO THEY DON'T!
So I should I just drop an early 13B in my RX8 and then agree with you? If I do that , and run Synthetic, will you pay for any non-warranty issues that arise?
DUde, i dont give a **** if you dont want to believe. bottom line is that both engines use the same apex seals and if they go bad are simply because of stupid owners who wont listen!
unfortunaly this is a process that takes time to blow your engine.. I will laugh when you blow your engine at 50K
Im done here///time will teach you guys
Last edited by RX7FD3; 11-16-2003 at 12:09 AM.
11-16-2003, 12:09 AM
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Maybe I'm just dumb, but wouldn't the engine not turn over (i.e locked up) if the apex seals were sticking. Unless the result of the sticking seals meant a small piece of the seal broke each time the engine turned over.
11-16-2003, 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by syntrix
So are you saying that the dealers are going to mail them, or Mazda?
I stay far away from the dealers, and if that's the only way to officially get info, then I'd be out of the loop.
Side note: I only run dino, but trying to clarify for everyone else!
So are you saying that the dealers are going to mail them, or Mazda?
I stay far away from the dealers, and if that's the only way to officially get info, then I'd be out of the loop.
Side note: I only run dino, but trying to clarify for everyone else!
The brochures arrived from Mazda to the dealer. I'm not sure how Mazda wanted them distributed. My dealer percieved a problem after Rx8's arrived on flatbeds. These cars were flooded. My service department advisor also told me that they flooded one in the lot themselves (lots of moving cars for very short distances).
They (the dealer) responded to this issue with a letter of their own. With that letter came the Brochure I posted.
If Mazda wanted to send these directly to us....I dont see why they could not. My opinion is that they were sent to be placed in cars on the lot....like the "quick tips" guide that was tied around the stick shift. The new brochure addresses the issues now being observed. Oil consumption, and possibility of flooding.
11-16-2003, 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by RX7FD3
DUde, i dont give a **** if you dont want to believe. bottom line is that both engines use the same apex seals and if they go bad are simply because of stupid owners who wont listen!
Im done here///time will teach you guys
DUde, i dont give a **** if you dont want to believe. bottom line is that both engines use the same apex seals and if they go bad are simply because of stupid owners who wont listen!
Im done here///time will teach you guys
I think I have Monday off, I'm going to go down and actually order all of the manuals.
I'll ask the techs to look it up and cross reference... what year/model where you referring to?
If that's the case, I'll post it up and agree with you!!!
But for now:
Where in the RX8 Owner documentation does it say that you can NOT RUN SYNTHETICS?
11-16-2003, 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by rxtreme
Maybe I'm just dumb, but wouldn't the engine not turn over (i.e locked up) if the apex seals were sticking. Unless the result of the sticking seals meant a small piece of the seal broke each time the engine turned over.
Maybe I'm just dumb, but wouldn't the engine not turn over (i.e locked up) if the apex seals were sticking. Unless the result of the sticking seals meant a small piece of the seal broke each time the engine turned over.
There is plenty of times when only just 1 rotor loses compression, yet the car still runs with the other. It lacks of power but still runs.
Is hard to tell, but a compression test will tell you for sure.
Last edited by RX7FD3; 11-16-2003 at 12:15 AM.
11-16-2003, 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by syntrix
What are the part numbers for each?
Where in the RX8 Owner documentation does it say that you can NOT RUN SYNTHETICS?
What are the part numbers for each?
Where in the RX8 Owner documentation does it say that you can NOT RUN SYNTHETICS?
But, im sorry to say ...You are just hard headed!
11-16-2003, 12:16 AM
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What do you think Mazda would say if you wrote them an email asking about the use of Protek-R in your fuel with the RX-8? Do that and post the results.
OK, I'll save you the trouble...they're going to tell you not to do it! Are you then going to reverse your previous statements about how great the stuff is for rotary engines? Are you going to stop using it?
jds
OK, I'll save you the trouble...they're going to tell you not to do it! Are you then going to reverse your previous statements about how great the stuff is for rotary engines? Are you going to stop using it?
jds
11-16-2003, 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by Gyro
ohh yes thank you RX7FD guy.....I almost forgot. The APEX seals on the RENESIS are new too. An all new design.....never used before. Your going to teach us......
ohh yes thank you RX7FD guy.....I almost forgot. The APEX seals on the RENESIS are new too. An all new design.....never used before. Your going to teach us......
Where did you hear that?? it uses the same 2MM MAZDA Apex seal. Same material, same thickness, same everything, the only difference is is the shape to be able to fit then renesis engine
So how is it different other than the shape?
11-16-2003, 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by RX7FD3
They already showed you a scanned mailers from MAZDA and a copy of a letter sent directly from MAZDA Corp to a forum member, Why dont you email mazda just like he did.
But, im sorry to say ...You are just hard headed!
They already showed you a scanned mailers from MAZDA and a copy of a letter sent directly from MAZDA Corp to a forum member, Why dont you email mazda just like he did.
But, im sorry to say ...You are just hard headed!
Sorry for repeating mysself, but MAZDA did NOT show me these DOCUMENTS.
And until I have have OFFICIAL proof to the average owner, I'm going to defend the OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION presented to ALL owners.
Until that time comes, it's all hearseay.
Why can't you understand that?
And if we are on another page.... I'm solely running dino in my car, but just keeping it real for the people here.
Why is this so difficult with you?
11-16-2003, 12:17 AM
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OK, guys this is getting too intense for me now.
My take on this topic is that based on info from Gyro with this new manual, Mazda recommends against Synthetic oils. I look forward to getting this from Mazda.
Thanks for all the info, this was actually worthwhile! Now I am gonna watch a movie.
Good Night
My take on this topic is that based on info from Gyro with this new manual, Mazda recommends against Synthetic oils. I look forward to getting this from Mazda.
Thanks for all the info, this was actually worthwhile! Now I am gonna watch a movie.
Good Night
11-16-2003, 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by bureau13
What do you think Mazda would say if you wrote them an email asking about the use of Protek-R in your fuel with the RX-8? Do that and post the results.
jds
What do you think Mazda would say if you wrote them an email asking about the use of Protek-R in your fuel with the RX-8? Do that and post the results.
jds
Do you think mazda will agree or approve of the use of HKS, GREDDY SIngle Turbos in RX-7s, of course they wont. When have you heard of any car maker to aprove anything being done for their cars through a third party company.
Petit Racing has been building rotary engines for years and their vehicles are alot more reliable than factory mazda's...so i would trusth them more than i would trusth mazda.
Per example mazda swears that the intercooler they used works great on RX-7s or their downpipes yet in reality, the downpipe its the worst thing an RX7, it so restriced and it produces unnesseary heat. and the Intercooler is tiny! WTF where they thinking to put such a small intercooler on a turbo Car?? So no...I dont trusth mazda
11-16-2003, 12:24 AM
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You guys crack me up. Anyway, RX7FD3, I think the seals are different. I remember reading about it in the big book sent out to all the pre-ordered owners. The rotor design in conjunction with the seals is different, too. I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I think it does something to lessen the stress on the seal during cumbustion.
11-16-2003, 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by RenesisPower
OK, guys this is getting too intense for me now.
My take on this topic is that based on info from Gyro with this new manual, Mazda recommends against Synthetic oils. I look forward to getting this from Mazda.
Thanks for all the info, this was actually worthwhile! Now I am gonna watch a movie.
Good Night
OK, guys this is getting too intense for me now.
My take on this topic is that based on info from Gyro with this new manual, Mazda recommends against Synthetic oils. I look forward to getting this from Mazda.
Thanks for all the info, this was actually worthwhile! Now I am gonna watch a movie.
Good Night
Until we get this Mazda, what's point on arguing about it with RX7 owners that know nothing about the documentation given with a new RX8?
Show me the docs delivered personally to my name, and I'll praise the MNAO lords that have given us this wonderful car!
Have I mentioned that this thread rocks?
RX8 owners need to open the holy book of owners manuals and read passage 8-9 in that divine book provided to you by the dealer that you took delivery from!
In no way is Satan mentioned in that passage, much less the sin of synthetic oils. If oil spec defined is the bread, is the bread different from white, wheat, whole grain, sour dough, etc etc, until the lord (Mazda) officially invokes it's wrath upon us with written holy documentation that certain breads are not good for the spirit?
11-16-2003, 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by Chrisbert
Page 111 of the RX8 design book by Yamaguchi.
The Renesis Apex seal is now two-piece, and it heith is reduced to 4.5mm from the previous 8mm.
Page 111 of the RX8 design book by Yamaguchi.
The Renesis Apex seal is now two-piece, and it heith is reduced to 4.5mm from the previous 8mm.
11-16-2003, 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by rxtreme
You guys crack me up. Anyway, RX7FD3, I think the seals are different. I remember reading about it in the big book sent out to all the pre-ordered owners. The rotor design in conjunction with the seals is different, too. I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I think it does something to lessen the stress on the seal during cumbustion.
You guys crack me up. Anyway, RX7FD3, I think the seals are different. I remember reading about it in the big book sent out to all the pre-ordered owners. The rotor design in conjunction with the seals is different, too. I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I think it does something to lessen the stress on the seal during cumbustion.
[heh, I'm not even religious, but this is fun!]