Nubo

Depends on what you mean by "officially notified". Stuff like "salesman said" or "service guy said" doesn't hold much water. I think they'd either have to get you to sign something (yeah, right) or a serious information campaign including direct mailings to every owner. But I don't think even that would buy them much in a warranty dispute. It's gotta be in the owners manual or other "official" documentation that's given to EVERY owner upon taking delivery.

bureau13

That's fine, but keep in mind that the FD manual had the no synthetic prohibition from the get-go.

jds

syntrix

Yes, especially the name of the doc, and any related info to "owners manual supplement"!!!!

The Renesis is not the same as the engine in the RX7. There are a lot of differences, and the RX7 Owners Manual is not included in the purchase of the RX8

syntrix

But there is nowhere in the RX8 manual that states "no synthetics"

That's the point I'm making!

So I had to own an RX7 to adhere to it's guidelines for the RX8? I don't think so!!!!!!


Wow, this is a hot topic!!!!!!! Swanky!

Gyro

It was not supplied with the car. I recieved my car in the very first shipment.

This just arrived on thursday. It was a brochure that the dealers just recieved. The dealer "forwarded" it to me along with a letter of their own.

It is a 4 page brochure.

RenesisPower

Guys,

Please forgive my ignorance but what the heck is "FD"? I see it everywhere referred to third gen RX-7 but what does it stand for?

Thanks loads.

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

The bottom line I'm still trying to figure out is whether or not synthetic would help my rotary last longer. All the evidence about sythetics suggest it would. Unfortunately, there still seems to be some small doubts by some inconspicuous information put out by Mazda. Information that very few of us have. Man, my next oil change is approaching fast and I still don't know what to do!

bureau13

Now why would you assume a funny thing like that???

jds

RX7FD3

There is vary few variations like fuel injection reduced because is not a turbo engine, exhaust porting to reduce emmission eshaust combusting just to name the main ones.

If you see a picture of a split RX-8 and RX-7 engine, they are basicly the same, adding a few mods to make the engine lower emmissions isnt much of a difference.

Therefor a comparison of both engines does apply wether newbis want to bealieve it or not.

RX7FD3

Here is the breakdown

FB= First gen RX-7 1979-1985
FC= Second gen RX-7 1986-1992
FD= AKA FD3S 3rd gen RX-7 1993-1995(USDM) 2001(JDM)
FE= RX-8

syntrix

So are you saying that the dealers are going to mail them, or Mazda?

I stay far away from the dealers, and if that's the only way to officially get info, then I'd be out of the loop.

Side note: I only run dino, but trying to clarify for everyone else!

RenesisPower

I disagree. respectfully on the fact that RX-7 and RX-8 engines are the same.

The Renesis has the side ports, extra ports in the 6-speed version that open up in the upper range, an air flow pressurizer (not quite a turbocharger), the ECM itself is vastly different, etc.

RenesisPower

RX7FD3,

Thanks for the explanation on FD.

syntrix

Then why did Mazda leave it out of the RX8 manual????????

THAT'S the QUESTION!!!!!

Nubo

Somebody explain this "has to burn" issue to me?

Why does the oil HAVE to BURN?

"Has to LUBRICATE" I can understand.

And, if ease-of-burning is an issue, I'm surprised they'd go with the latest API service category. A lot of the advances include increased temperature resistance. So by the "needs to burn" logic they'd be spec'ing SE oil or something.

RX7FD3

Those are small variation. They are both rotary engines and the basics argued in this thread is what type of oil should we use on a "rotary engine"
Wether an RX-8 or RX-7, they both have apex seals which are affected by the type of oil it is used. So for this matter or arguement, it is safe to say that is the same engine.

They both use rotor housings, rotors and apex seals...end of story

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

But the fact still remains many top tuners of the FD rx-7 swear by synthetic oils and have used them without any problems. I would just like to see the research that shows synthetics for rotaries are bad. I, like others here, will probably still use dino until other evidence is shown that synthetic is entirely safe. I'm actually about 99% convinced that it is and the properties of synthetics are just too good not to use in piston engines. I'm just waiting for the final convincing to make the switch.

RenesisPower

Syntrix,

I am sure you agree that Mazda or any other car company can send a follow-on document with more updated data, such as the one Gyro has presented. This would e complimenting the info in the owner's manual.

As long as the info is directly from Mazda, I will go with it. I don't believe heresay, quotes from salesmen or svc. managers.

Gyro

Renesispower. You are correct. The statement that the Renesis engine and a FD Engine differences are very few, is completely incorrect.

Completely revised;

Oiling system (major revision)

Intake

exhaust

Engine management computer

Rotors

cooling system

fuel delivery

all new and unique to the Renesis

what the two engines DO share is the rotor housings. 13B

the new 13B MSP was completely buit new using a tried and true rotor housing the 13B.

the differences in the two engines are great and many.

RenesisPower

RX7FD3,

Are you a mechanic or factory service technician?

Chrisbert

I'm confused. Didn't RX7FD3 tell us to use some sort of synthetic lubricant that is added to the fuel in this thread: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=14671

So now we can "burn" synthetic additives in our fuel, but we shouldn't use synthetic oil, which ends up mixed with the fuel in the combustion chamber?
Fuckmerunnin!

syntrix

Even if you think they are close, then why is the "synthetic" left out of the owners manual of the RX8?

RX7FD3

Here it is. a simple explanation.

Rotary engines use small amounts of oil to lubricate internal parts, yet at the same time oil needs to be burned efficiently out of the combustion chamber to prevent carbon and residue build up.

Synthetic oil will burn but it just takes longer to burn causing the seals to stick.

Where as non-synthetic will get in there and lubricate and when it needs to be flushed, it will burn faster and more effciently out of the combustion chamber.

Petit racing has an additive called Protek-R that helps to do so wether you are using non-synthetic oil or synthetic oil. That additive lets you keep your choice of oil and still keep that rotary engine alive for many years to come.

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

When we talk about seals sticking. Are we referring to the apex seals sticking? What are the symptoms or how do we know when these seals are sticking?

RX7FD3

Yes im talking about apex seals.

You will start noticing that you are burning more oil than usual. When starting you will notice black smoke rather than white that tends to be normal for rotary engines

You will also notice the lack of power or your car just simply wont run.

The only other seals that might go bad are o-ring coolant seals, but those usually go bad because of overheating, or with high mileage. When those go bad, You will see more white smoke than usual, car will shake a bit when starting and it might seem like the car is floaded, add coolant light will come more often and overflow tank will push water/coolant out of the coolant system due to air pockets being pushed into the system through the o-rings.