Oil pan TSB question
11-17-2003, 07:13 AM
#1
VW coulda had it...
Thread Starter
Oil pan TSB question
First, thanks to renaldo, for posting this link on TSBs for the RX8.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ocs/index.html
I haven't had the oil light go on, (yet) and I'm wondering; the TSB regarding the oil pan replacement makes a reference to removing the old silicone sealant from the engine, and applying new silicone to the new oil pan.
Now, the big question. Did any of you notice what color and type of sealant was used on your oil pan, both before, and after, the oil pan replacement? It's pretty obvious 3-Bond or something similar was used on mine. It's grey in color, semi-hard, and IMHO, a better sealant than silicone. Those of you who have worked on Japanese cars or motorcycles may recognize it.
The reason I ask is; I'm wondering if some oil pans were replaced in port, or after the car and engine was assembled anyway.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ocs/index.html
I haven't had the oil light go on, (yet) and I'm wondering; the TSB regarding the oil pan replacement makes a reference to removing the old silicone sealant from the engine, and applying new silicone to the new oil pan.
Now, the big question. Did any of you notice what color and type of sealant was used on your oil pan, both before, and after, the oil pan replacement? It's pretty obvious 3-Bond or something similar was used on mine. It's grey in color, semi-hard, and IMHO, a better sealant than silicone. Those of you who have worked on Japanese cars or motorcycles may recognize it.
The reason I ask is; I'm wondering if some oil pans were replaced in port, or after the car and engine was assembled anyway.
11-25-2003, 09:53 AM
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We have two RX-8's come in with for Oil Pan replacement. Its a very simple process. Basically you drain the oil and remove the pan. You clean off the old silicon gasket off the pan and off the engine. Next you apply the silicon gasket to the oil pan and reinstall. We usually allow the pan to sit for 24 hours before putting oil back into the vehicle, but this isnt nessicary....just our perfrence. Thats all it is to it. Takes a couple of hours total.
11-25-2003, 10:48 AM
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I tried scheduling the oil pan replacement with the dealer service shop, citing my vin (in range), the TSB itself, and the TSB issue date. I was turned down. I was told that I must first go through three service steps to verify the problem (i.e., read the CEL code) and attempt remedial fixes short of replacing the oil pan, and that this is not a recall issue, just a TSB that was issued 'at least six months ago'.
I told the service advisor I am not happy about being denied the fix for these reasons:
1. The TSB issue date is 11/14/03 -- hardly 'at least six months ago'!
2. The TSB only requires the VIN to be within the specified range, and does not require verification of any symptom -- very much unlike most other TSBs. In fact, there is no mention of reading the CEL code. The TSB actually goes so far as to flat-out state all vehicles w/in the VIN range should have the oil pan replaced.
3. I do not want to allow my oil level to fall to the lower 1/4 portion of the dipstick markings, just so I run the engine at 4k for a long time on the freeway until the CEL lights. or, perform high-speed cornering until a get a CEL.
4. This is a pretty limited VIN range, and apparently determined to have substandard-designed oil pans installed. It surely seems imprudent to wait until the car actually detects a problem before getting this fixed, no?
The response: sorry. Ugh.
Now that I have this written up, I may just jet off a letter to customer service to see if I can get some sort of authorization letter from mazda to have the oil pan replaced.
It looks like we have an actual mazda service tech looking at this thread...what's your take on this?
I told the service advisor I am not happy about being denied the fix for these reasons:
1. The TSB issue date is 11/14/03 -- hardly 'at least six months ago'!
2. The TSB only requires the VIN to be within the specified range, and does not require verification of any symptom -- very much unlike most other TSBs. In fact, there is no mention of reading the CEL code. The TSB actually goes so far as to flat-out state all vehicles w/in the VIN range should have the oil pan replaced.
3. I do not want to allow my oil level to fall to the lower 1/4 portion of the dipstick markings, just so I run the engine at 4k for a long time on the freeway until the CEL lights. or, perform high-speed cornering until a get a CEL.
4. This is a pretty limited VIN range, and apparently determined to have substandard-designed oil pans installed. It surely seems imprudent to wait until the car actually detects a problem before getting this fixed, no?
The response: sorry. Ugh.
Now that I have this written up, I may just jet off a letter to customer service to see if I can get some sort of authorization letter from mazda to have the oil pan replaced.
It looks like we have an actual mazda service tech looking at this thread...what's your take on this?
11-25-2003, 12:58 PM
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JDL,
You have to understand that the RX8 is a brand new car. Mazda is making sure that they are not jumping the gun with by replacing all the oil pans. Rotary engines burn more oil than a conventional piston engine, so most of the time oil lights that we see are because people have not checked the oil level in a few weeks. All that is happened with the oil pan situation is that the sensors located within the baffles in the oil pan are having problems reading the proper level of oil when at a certain RPM and/or speed. Its not a problem that will cause any problems, just merely a annoyance factor.
As of the last I heard, it will take anywhere for 1 week to 1 month to get an oil pan in stock. You have to bear with the dealerships in regards to the -8, because they are as new to the whole car as you are. The technicains have been to school and the service writers have been given a class on the car, but when new problems arise they are clueless. I have personally spoken to people from the Mazda Hotline and they tell me they are working out every possible situation they can think of. People need to understand that IT IS A BRAND NEW CAR. Problems are going to arise and there are going to be bugs. Anybody who uses Windows or AOL, knows that there are bugs in the system still to this day, and combined, both have been around for almost 20 years. So, bear with Mazda when it comes to maintance problems with the 8. In a year or so, everything will be situatied. Just understand that it is a new car to me, you, the dealership, the technicians, and to Mazda.
There is no reason to be upset over the problem your having JDL. I see your reasoning 100%, but I am on the other side of the spectrum and you have to understand its not done on purpose. Dealerships want customers to come back and want you to be happy, just sometimes its hard to accomadate everyone. The only thing I can say, is be patient and keep in touch with the service department at the dealership. Dont be rude about it, and just remeber that its a car that Mazda holds to the highest standard right now and they are working all of the bugs out of it.
You have to understand that the RX8 is a brand new car. Mazda is making sure that they are not jumping the gun with by replacing all the oil pans. Rotary engines burn more oil than a conventional piston engine, so most of the time oil lights that we see are because people have not checked the oil level in a few weeks. All that is happened with the oil pan situation is that the sensors located within the baffles in the oil pan are having problems reading the proper level of oil when at a certain RPM and/or speed. Its not a problem that will cause any problems, just merely a annoyance factor.
As of the last I heard, it will take anywhere for 1 week to 1 month to get an oil pan in stock. You have to bear with the dealerships in regards to the -8, because they are as new to the whole car as you are. The technicains have been to school and the service writers have been given a class on the car, but when new problems arise they are clueless. I have personally spoken to people from the Mazda Hotline and they tell me they are working out every possible situation they can think of. People need to understand that IT IS A BRAND NEW CAR. Problems are going to arise and there are going to be bugs. Anybody who uses Windows or AOL, knows that there are bugs in the system still to this day, and combined, both have been around for almost 20 years. So, bear with Mazda when it comes to maintance problems with the 8. In a year or so, everything will be situatied. Just understand that it is a new car to me, you, the dealership, the technicians, and to Mazda.
There is no reason to be upset over the problem your having JDL. I see your reasoning 100%, but I am on the other side of the spectrum and you have to understand its not done on purpose. Dealerships want customers to come back and want you to be happy, just sometimes its hard to accomadate everyone. The only thing I can say, is be patient and keep in touch with the service department at the dealership. Dont be rude about it, and just remeber that its a car that Mazda holds to the highest standard right now and they are working all of the bugs out of it.
11-25-2003, 01:10 PM
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JDL,
Also, with the 3 Step thing you mentioned. Im not aware of that. Each region and dealership has its own methods. If it falls in the VIN range and it has the oil light on, then we do it, but again we havent had but 2 of them.
From what I remeber we didnt have a CEL, we had an Oil Light. We checked the oil and it was full and the Mazda Hotline refered us to the oil pan. Other than that I dont know what to tell you. Again, they may have different procedures than we do. My recommendation.....talk to the service writer again, but be respectful, understanding, and nice - the easier you make it for the service writer the easier they make for you. We have over a 40 customer in our shop today ourselves. If he cant help you go to the service manager...and again just be cool about it and they will help you out. And if they cant help you, call mazda and they will get it taken care of. Just be patince, thats my best advice.
If you have anymore questions, let me know...and I apologize if I seem rude, just telling it how it is
Also, with the 3 Step thing you mentioned. Im not aware of that. Each region and dealership has its own methods. If it falls in the VIN range and it has the oil light on, then we do it, but again we havent had but 2 of them.
From what I remeber we didnt have a CEL, we had an Oil Light. We checked the oil and it was full and the Mazda Hotline refered us to the oil pan. Other than that I dont know what to tell you. Again, they may have different procedures than we do. My recommendation.....talk to the service writer again, but be respectful, understanding, and nice - the easier you make it for the service writer the easier they make for you. We have over a 40 customer in our shop today ourselves. If he cant help you go to the service manager...and again just be cool about it and they will help you out. And if they cant help you, call mazda and they will get it taken care of. Just be patince, thats my best advice.
If you have anymore questions, let me know...and I apologize if I seem rude, just telling it how it is
11-25-2003, 01:51 PM
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When I look at the TSB, it says "All vehicles within the VIN range [40000000-40111043] should have the oil pan replaced using the following procedure ..."
That's an unequivocable statement. I can't see how your service department can deny the fix for you.
This is more than simply an annoyance. If you have not had the fix and your oil light comes on you will not know if it is truly an oil problem or simply the pan issue. It has the potential to mask a more serious problem.
I agree, extend all courtesy towards the service folks (just good manners), but I would insist on the fix and take it up the chain as needed. A delay to obtain the part is understandable but refusal to fix a known defect is inexcusable.
That's an unequivocable statement. I can't see how your service department can deny the fix for you.
This is more than simply an annoyance. If you have not had the fix and your oil light comes on you will not know if it is truly an oil problem or simply the pan issue. It has the potential to mask a more serious problem.
I agree, extend all courtesy towards the service folks (just good manners), but I would insist on the fix and take it up the chain as needed. A delay to obtain the part is understandable but refusal to fix a known defect is inexcusable.
11-25-2003, 01:53 PM
#10
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You know, unless the problem with the oil pan can cause a problem to the engine, I don't think I WANT to fix this "problem."
Here is why - my oil light came on repeatedly back in September when I was on the interstate, going in the 75-85 mph range. When I checked the oil, it was halfway between Low and Hi on the dipstick. Now, what's so wrong with that? It reminds me that I need to check the oil and keep it topped off. Especially helpful when you consider this car probably needs to be kept topped off a little more religiously than others.
So, my question is: does the oil pan NEED to be replaced for mechanical reasons? Or is this just truly an "annoyance" and nothing more?
If it's just an annoyance and the light doesn't start coming on even when the oil level is full, I'll live with it, thanks.
Here is why - my oil light came on repeatedly back in September when I was on the interstate, going in the 75-85 mph range. When I checked the oil, it was halfway between Low and Hi on the dipstick. Now, what's so wrong with that? It reminds me that I need to check the oil and keep it topped off. Especially helpful when you consider this car probably needs to be kept topped off a little more religiously than others.
So, my question is: does the oil pan NEED to be replaced for mechanical reasons? Or is this just truly an "annoyance" and nothing more?
If it's just an annoyance and the light doesn't start coming on even when the oil level is full, I'll live with it, thanks.
11-25-2003, 02:12 PM
#11
VW coulda had it...
Thread Starter
I'm with loco4rx8 on this one. I'm a more than a little leary about getting service work done by the dealer unless truly necessary to solve or prevent a problem. And it's not just my dealer, it's dealers or mechanics in general.
Especially without getting the full story about the procedure in question, because I've seen it too often where the dealer does some drastic repair on a critical component, without really knowing if the repair will solve the problem.
On this topic, I haven't had a low oil light yet, and am still wondering if my pan has been replaced already.
Especially without getting the full story about the procedure in question, because I've seen it too often where the dealer does some drastic repair on a critical component, without really knowing if the repair will solve the problem.
On this topic, I haven't had a low oil light yet, and am still wondering if my pan has been replaced already.
11-25-2003, 02:16 PM
#12
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Originally posted by KKMmaniac
On this topic, I haven't had a low oil light yet, and am still wondering if my pan has been replaced already.
On this topic, I haven't had a low oil light yet, and am still wondering if my pan has been replaced already.
11-25-2003, 02:27 PM
#13
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Thanks for the opinions, all. Really. I suspect my post had a little more "heat" in it than intended 
I truely am very polite -- almost happy -- when chatting with any service member for one of my mazdas: I certainly never want anyone working on my car that might begrudge me in any way!
One thing I didn't mention before was the service tech I spoke to left off the conversation with, (paraphrase) "...and if you do have the light come on, don't worry: we have two replacement pans at the ready..." So it's not a matter of time waiting for a part or something.
I just really took issue with the lack of acknowledgement to the TSB's rather clear "All vehicles within the VIN range...should have the oil pan replaced..." That was actually part of our conversation.
Now I don't want to be mistaken for being upset with the car, it's newness, et al: I'm darn happy with the car, and I fully anticipate any number of various little fixes for this and that. loco4rx8 makes an excellent point that this fix may be unnecessary...if the "problem" (oil light comes on seemingly when it shouldn't) is resolved simply by ensuring the oil level be kept above the midpoint of the dipstick hash marks, great. My concern is this "annoyance" actually motiviated mazda enough to produce a replacement part. Apparently there's more to it than 'keep it topped off.' And if there's a known problem with an available fix, darn it, I want to be in line for it. That's all.
Sorry I think I'm starting to repeat myself, and feeling a bit guilty that I may have hijacked the thread I'm cool with the service folks, very happy with the car. I just want to Do The Right Thing for the car, as I plan to keep it a very long time (you listening, Mazda?)
I truely am very polite -- almost happy -- when chatting with any service member for one of my mazdas: I certainly never want anyone working on my car that might begrudge me in any way!One thing I didn't mention before was the service tech I spoke to left off the conversation with, (paraphrase) "...and if you do have the light come on, don't worry: we have two replacement pans at the ready..." So it's not a matter of time waiting for a part or something.
I just really took issue with the lack of acknowledgement to the TSB's rather clear "All vehicles within the VIN range...should have the oil pan replaced..." That was actually part of our conversation.
Now I don't want to be mistaken for being upset with the car, it's newness, et al: I'm darn happy with the car, and I fully anticipate any number of various little fixes for this and that. loco4rx8 makes an excellent point that this fix may be unnecessary...if the "problem" (oil light comes on seemingly when it shouldn't) is resolved simply by ensuring the oil level be kept above the midpoint of the dipstick hash marks, great. My concern is this "annoyance" actually motiviated mazda enough to produce a replacement part. Apparently there's more to it than 'keep it topped off.' And if there's a known problem with an available fix, darn it, I want to be in line for it. That's all.
Sorry I think I'm starting to repeat myself, and feeling a bit guilty that I may have hijacked the thread
I'm cool with the service folks, very happy with the car. I just want to Do The Right Thing for the car, as I plan to keep it a very long time (you listening, Mazda?)
11-25-2003, 02:27 PM
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Ditto.
Mine is in the listed VIN range for the oil pan fix. But, I have never had the oil light go off. (However, I don't do a lot of extended 70-75 MPH driving, mine are mostly twisty back country roads).
Is there a visual way to tell the different oilpan? Different Dipstick?
Mine is in the listed VIN range for the oil pan fix. But, I have never had the oil light go off. (However, I don't do a lot of extended 70-75 MPH driving, mine are mostly twisty back country roads).
Is there a visual way to tell the different oilpan? Different Dipstick?
11-25-2003, 05:03 PM
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I understand why people are weary of the dealerships. We have gotten a bad rap about doing repairs that werent needed, but I know personally we dont do that. We have people come in and say " Oh well its the water pump thats make the noise " - we dont just replace the waterpump and charge 500 bucks for no reason. We look at it first...charge a check out fee. If it turns out the belts are loose we tighten the belts and get the customer out.
I work at a dealership and see how people react to large esitmates, but I personally always encourage a customer to come back and look at the car and let me show them what the problem is. For example if a customer needs new spark plugs, I will take his old spark plug and hold it side by side to a new spark plug and explain what happens. Not all dealerships are out to screw you, and boards like this help out a lot, because you get people who deal with certian problems and share it so that when someone else has a similar problem than get have an idea of what is going on. I dont hold myself higher by any means, but its nice to have people like me who work at dealerships and can give you the downlow on everything. I know people hate me when I give them a large estimate, I have had customers cry, and cuss me out. Its not my goal personally and I know a lot of Mazda service writers that dont want to make your life harder. A few bad apples ruin the bunch.
As for the oil p0an JDL, go to the dealership and tell them you want it changed. Give them the bulletin, if they dont help you go to the service manager, then to the general manager if needed. I agree abotu the oil light masking a problem, and that is why it should have been addressed. But, dont let one bad instance ruin that dealership, I would recommend giving them another shot and if they screw it up again, find another dealership ... www.mazdausa.com has a good listing of dealerships.
Any more questions, comments, or grips let me know and I will try and answer them for ya.
I work at a dealership and see how people react to large esitmates, but I personally always encourage a customer to come back and look at the car and let me show them what the problem is. For example if a customer needs new spark plugs, I will take his old spark plug and hold it side by side to a new spark plug and explain what happens. Not all dealerships are out to screw you, and boards like this help out a lot, because you get people who deal with certian problems and share it so that when someone else has a similar problem than get have an idea of what is going on. I dont hold myself higher by any means, but its nice to have people like me who work at dealerships and can give you the downlow on everything. I know people hate me when I give them a large estimate, I have had customers cry, and cuss me out. Its not my goal personally and I know a lot of Mazda service writers that dont want to make your life harder. A few bad apples ruin the bunch.
As for the oil p0an JDL, go to the dealership and tell them you want it changed. Give them the bulletin, if they dont help you go to the service manager, then to the general manager if needed. I agree abotu the oil light masking a problem, and that is why it should have been addressed. But, dont let one bad instance ruin that dealership, I would recommend giving them another shot and if they screw it up again, find another dealership ... www.mazdausa.com has a good listing of dealerships.
Any more questions, comments, or grips let me know and I will try and answer them for ya.
11-25-2003, 05:11 PM
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By the way, with the oil pan thing. Its exactly the same pan with different baffles. No dipstick change. I believe there is a sticker they put in the engine bay, but I sadly I dont know. I will check and see....
11-25-2003, 05:22 PM
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my vin falls in allocation
but I have never had a problem or oil light come on
I have 7500 miles on my 8
should I still have them change the pan if I have had no problems?
but I have never had a problem or oil light come on
I have 7500 miles on my 8
should I still have them change the pan if I have had no problems?
11-25-2003, 08:30 PM
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Not nessecarily. Right now the oil pan thing is just a Bulletin, not a recall. Not all of the cars will be effected with the problem. The VIN selection is basically the starting VIN number of the series of cars and the last car they put that pan on. Not all of them are having problems. Its just that Mazda is aware of what cars may be effected and if it happens, thats what they can reference.
So if its not on, dont worry about it, but ask your dealership the next time you go in for service and see how they want to approach the problem.
So if its not on, dont worry about it, but ask your dealership the next time you go in for service and see how they want to approach the problem.
11-25-2003, 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by SnyderMazz
Not nessecarily. Right now the oil pan thing is just a Bulletin, not a recall. Not all of the cars will be effected with the problem. The VIN selection is basically the starting VIN number of the series of cars and the last car they put that pan on. Not all of them are having problems. Its just that Mazda is aware of what cars may be effected and if it happens, thats what they can reference.
So if its not on, dont worry about it, but ask your dealership the next time you go in for service and see how they want to approach the problem.
Not nessecarily. Right now the oil pan thing is just a Bulletin, not a recall. Not all of the cars will be effected with the problem. The VIN selection is basically the starting VIN number of the series of cars and the last car they put that pan on. Not all of them are having problems. Its just that Mazda is aware of what cars may be effected and if it happens, thats what they can reference.
So if its not on, dont worry about it, but ask your dealership the next time you go in for service and see how they want to approach the problem.
11-26-2003, 06:59 AM
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Service wise, we havent had anything major happen. I have personally dealt with two RX-8s with major issues - oil pan and a cat. Most of the cars we see are oil changes and tire rotations. And the occasionaly person coming in who doesnt know how to add oil to the engine or even check it. I dont know how many we have should honesty, I would imagine more than 10 less than 20. And customer satisfaction seems to be overall good. No offense meant by this, but RX8 people are very very picky. Yes, I do think overall they are happy campers. At the same time I think they are a little annoyed by the bugs working out, but you have to expect that from a brand new car.
11-26-2003, 11:53 AM
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can someone direct me to the VIN range ( I don't 'need' to see the TSB) - but in the above link the TSB for the oil light doesn't mention VIN range,that I've been able to find!
11-26-2003, 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by rx8daniel
can someone direct me to the VIN range ( I don't 'need' to see the TSB) - but in the above link the TSB for the oil light doesn't mention VIN range,that I've been able to find!
can someone direct me to the VIN range ( I don't 'need' to see the TSB) - but in the above link the TSB for the oil light doesn't mention VIN range,that I've been able to find!
"APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINs
2004 RX8
VINS: JMFE17**40000000 to 40111043"
DESCRIPTION
The low oil level warning light may come on while driving with engine speed 4500 to 4800 RPM and the oil level is within specifications (1/4 above L on the dipstick).
All vehicles within the VIN range should have the oil pan replaced using the following procedure."
The updated TSB adds a parts information and warrantee information section that was missing from the 11/14/03 bulletin.
