DCIrish

So weird thing happened and I'm wondering if it happened to anyone else. I was accelerating onto a highway in 2nd gear to redline (60mph or so) and when I shifted the check engine light started flashing. temps and pressure was fine. The light turned off after about 20 seconds but still unnerving. It MIGHT be my imagination but it seems to have less power now. I haven't tried redlining it again since but looking for incite. thanx guys. Hope you can help

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

A flashing CEL ALWAYS means a misfire. Always. 100% of the time. It is the only condition that produces a flashing CEL per the OEM documentation.


Yes, it's happened to LOTS of people, considering the #1 reason for misfires is failing ignition, and our ignition fails about every 30,000 miles, often earlier. The numerous other reasons for misfires pile lots of opportunities on there as well. It's more likely that there are very few RX-8s that have never produced the misfire code.

See my signature for the link on what steps to take to solve it.

DCIrish

Thank you

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Some correction : newer ignition coils, actually anything b and after, will last longer than 30k miles

And the newest version c, which began production since spirit-r , due to changes in the heat insulation material, will last even longer,

DCIrish

any idea what I'm looking at cost wise (if I do it myself). Probably wanna go with B or C coils if that were the case. and I read to stick with OEM sparks cause of temperature controls...?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I would very much love to see some data on that. I expect that you are correct, but I have yet to see anything to confirm it. It doesn't help that in general owner's have no idea what revision coil they have installed.

Until I get some confirmation, and something more than "longer", I'm going to continue to recommend 30k change intervals.

The cheapest option for the 30k interval coils, plugs, and wires depends on where you go to buy them. The lowest I have seen is $192 shipped (US) from a major parts chain. The highest I have seen was around $600 picked up at a Mazda dealer.

Pretty much you only have 3 coil options though, unless you get into DIY custom coils and deal with mounting, dwell times, etc...:
1) The cheap 30k interval coils found at most autoparts stores, around $33 each (plus markups or minus discounts) (~$132)
2) The more expensive coil from dealers (that probably is Revision C and you can confirm by part number), or autoparts stores (where it is assumed that they are Revision C, but ZERO proof that they actually are)... for around $85 each. (~$340)
3) BHR ignition upgrade from blackhaloracing.com for $500. Includes a warranty and an extremely high reliability rate. So high that even used kits are usually sold for at least $350-$400. You can generally expect not to have to replace them ever again, depending on how long you own your 8.

DCIrish

thanks again. I'll look into it. see how I can approach it. got an ODB coming too just to see IF anything is coming up in computer.

Karack

or if you simply have a timing light/spark plug tester you can address the problem coils/wires/plugs as they arise without replacing all components. a timing light on each wire with the engine running will tell you if any of the 4 circuits are not firing in less than 5 minutes.

in my experience the trailing lead coil/wire/plug are almost always the first to go and i actually have never seen any others fail yet. but most people totally skip the diagnosis and take a sledge hammer approach, just changing everything every 30k miles. when i owned our BMW E36 they would say the same thing about the cooling system, replace it ALL every 30k, which was a rediculous approach and just filled up those landfills quicker with junk.

i do however suggest replacing wires/plugs as match sets all at the same time(start with plugs, then test/replace the wire set and finally the coil(s) . but i don't see the coils being as bad as they are made to sound, they do fail but only one here and there.

before this goes further, yes, driving a misfiring car for extended periods of time will result in engine/exhaust system damage so you should address misfires/flashing CEL as quickly as possible.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Does a timing light indicate a spark that is still present but is weak?

Agreed that they typically fail one at a time. I see it as replacing one at a time means that you end up spending more time with a weak ignition system, as you have to run through the period of weak spark before you pick up on the misfire, and you have to do it once for each coil. The other 3 may be fine now, but their death isn't that far off anyway.

It's like only replacing 1 tire because it's at 2/16" tread depth, but not the other three at 3/16" or 4/16", and waiting for those to get down far enough. It just doesn't make sense to me to sit on 1 good coil and 3 near death ones, waiting for them to fail individually.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

It's in Japanese , Mazda Japan did say what changed on Revision C coils all they said was "better heat insulation material result in longer lasting coil"

Lemme see if I can find the stuff for you now. it's not easy

DCIrish

a curiosity thing. IF my engine were actually blown (apex seal dead)... would the flashing CEL stay on? it turned off which is a good sign like I said but since then the cars seems to lack ***** EI- wont accelerate up a hill in 4th gear going 50MPH. could coil issues create that do you think?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You are thinking about it all wrong.


A flashing CEL means that the ignition system is misfiring RIGHT NOW. Under an unknown set of circumstances, the ECU will finally decide that you are ignoring the problem and will make the CEL solid so that if a code reader is hooked up it will indicate that you have been misfiring in the past (P0300, P0301, or P0302). There is no code present when it is flashing. The ECU logic to decide when to make it solid isn't really understood, as it can go solid immediately, after a few seconds, or it may not go solid after miles of flashing.

Regardless of whether it is flashing or solid with a stored misfire code, your ignition system is misfiring and you NEED to take action.

You don't have a blown apex seal, your engine would be making all sorts of noises, thumps, bumps, bangs, shredding metal, etc... The damage to the internals is significant when an apex seal blows. (Here is pics of what happens inside an engine when a seal blows: https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...7/#post4275587)
If you have a weak engine, it is more likely simple wear on the side and apex seals, and they aren't sealing as effectively.

However, a complete gutless lag of power IS a result of a number of problems, including ignition failure. Another option is a clogged cat. Which cats get clogged because of ... take a guess ... misfires!

This is what we call cascading failure, where the failure of 1 part leads to additional failures, which in turn lead to yet more failures. In the case of a clogged cat, continuing to drive on a clogged cat will damage the O2 sensors, the engine, and eventually light your car on fire (yes, it's happened, I'm not exaggerating: https://www.rx8club.com/trouble-shoo...ce-help-244839)


So replace your ignition. 4 coils, 4 wires, 4 plugs. Shop smartly and you can get all 12 pieces for as low as about $190, though anything under $240 is reasonably priced. Dealers will charge you 3-4 times that.

There are other causes of misfires however, including MAF dirty, ESS dirty, ESS profile off, a clogged cat, engine block grounding problems, and low compression. Yes, if you replace your ignition but have a clogged cat, you still might have misfires, just from the clogged cat now.

DCIrish

ok. My check engine light is off completely tho. I hooked my OBD2 up and it has the p0302 as "pending", but bottom line is I don't want it flashing again. Just as you said, Im thinking of attacking the coils sparks and wires, and then investigating the CAT. are there any good online part sites that you know of?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Forum vendors:
Mazmart
BlackHaloRacing

Vendors that don't support the forum:
AdvanceAutoParts
RockAuto
Autozone
Amazon


The car part industry is substantial. Doing the homework yourself is going to pay dividends for you in the long run.