th1rd3y3

I've had my car in the shop several times because of high rpm grinding into second gear. It seems like anything past 8-8.5k rpms, it grinds whether I shift quickly or slowly. I've replaced my clutch hose with a SS one but that didn't seem to help much at all. The dealer has drained the fluid and inspected for grindings as well as pulled the clutch and inspected it. They have not found ANYTHING wrong with it.

Apparently, Mazda seems to be telling them that the car isn't made to shift at that kind of speed and if I continue trying to do it and break something, it will not be covered under warranty. I'm of course supremely pissed off and am wondering if anyone else is having this issue and if there are any suggestions as to what course of action to take.

I love my car and can honestly say that there's not another car I'd rather drive even close to it's price range, but why build a car with a 9k rpm redline, and advertise this fact as well, if you can't shift at that rpm?

B-Nez

That's definitely not right. The occasional 2-grind due to whatever is somewhat common, but every hi-rpm 1-2 shift? No way. Of course telling you you're not supposed to shift at that rpm is ridiculous. I guess enjoying the car means we're supposed to sit in the driveway in neutral revving up the motor and pretending we're shifting gears? It sounds to me like Mazda hasn't told them jack, and the dealership is just trying to blow you off. This sounds like the same symptoms as the folks whose pressure plate bolts were backing out. Go somewhere else or email/call MNAO.

robertdot

Just skip to third :P

th1rd3y3

Well the thing about going somewhere else is, I honestly don't think it's the dealership. They gave me the name and reference number for the call that they put into Mazda's service line that the techs use if they can't figure out what is wrong. I've tried calling MNAO once and that was a complete waste of time. They told me to call the dealership and schedule them to look at it, as if I haven't done that before.

Dr. Rx

Try changing your tranny oil to Redline and see if that will reduce the chances of grinding.

newcastle

iTrader: (3)

Do you have a "lemon law"? If so keep your service paper work and if Mazda does not fix it the third time your entilted to a full refund (I know here in California we have the "Lemon Law").

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I had the same problem, took it to the dealer and they told me it was fine... I was like WTF!!

So I get in my car any storm out of the dealer... then I notice it - when I would shift quickly from 1-2 i would pull down and slightly to the left. It turns out that was the only problem and I haven't grinded any 1-2 shifts for many many months.

th1rd3y3

I do have Redline tranny oil sitting in the garage, I just need the time to change it.

We do have a lemon law, I'm just hoping I don't have to go through with it, considering this will be the SECOND new Mazda we would have to get replaced. Although Mazda replaced her 03 Mazda6.

It's definitely not my shifting, I've tried very slow deliberate shifts and it will grind into gear no matter what I do. I've even had a friend who is a pretty good driver duplicate the exact same problem.

RXE16T

I've experienced grinding whilst shifting from 1st to 2nd (but not all the time) and sometimes from 2nd to 3rd as well.

This normally occurs for me when I am changing gears at around the 8k-8.5k mark during periods of spirited driving.

Driving in the same fashion but changing earlier at 7k-7.5k never causes grinding to happen.

I believe that it may have something to do with my gearbox not being able to withstand the engine's max power output at 8.2k, but this is only my theory.

Should be interesting to see what happens thousands of k's down the line after a few gearbox replacements.

MELRX8

Upshifting
1 to 2 23 km/h (14 mph)
2 to 3 35 km/h (22 mph)
3 to 4 47 km/h (29 mph)
4 to 5 58 km/h (36 mph)
5 to 6 74 km/h (46 mph)
Cruising
1 to 2 23 km/h (14 mph)
2 to 3 34 km/h (21 mph)
3 to 4 45 km/h (28 mph)
4 to 5 56 km/h (35 mph)
5 to 6 68 km/h (42 mph)
I suppose Mazda could fall back on the reccomended shift points shown in the manual. I tried driving like this but got frustrated, I shift at speeds at least 15mph faster than each of the listed figures as a rule.

wakeech

i remember from a while back that if you're not careful in how you're moving the gear selector you can easily grind going into second; make sure that you're moving the selector longitudinally to the gearbox, and not pulling it to the side as you're pulling it back.

also, try some different fluids, it really might help quite a bit.

ah ha, see?? try this solution as well.

th1rd3y3

Well I've tried all of these things including switching to Redline gear oil yesterday. As of last night I can't even shift into second at ANYTHING over 4000 rpms without grinding. No matter what throttle usage or shift speed. It just grinds. I'm at this point beyond pissed off and will now leave my car sit until Monday when the service shop opens back up so they can once again tell me that there's nothing wrong. I've already begun a rather lengthy letter Mazda.

rx8cited

Wow, that sux!

I'm running with Red Line transmission / diff fluids and my transmission's shifting is not silky smooth all the time.

I hope they fix your soon. Do let us know how things turn out.

rx8cited

th1rd3y3

Well I took it in today and Mazda apparently is blaming my problems on my high rpm shifting. Which is bull, because it's not like I redline first gear every chance I get, and why allow the engine to rev that high if the transmission can't handle it?

They are now "graciously" replacing whatever is broken at a "one-time" offer for free but anything beyond that I will have to pay for. I'm completely pissed now since I have 10k miles on my car and they are basically saying that if it breaks again it's my fault too bad.

So there is a very good possibility that my RX-8 will no longer be in my ownership after this coming weekend if they decide to stand by this claim once my car is done. Supposedly the service manager, who has been very helpful in the past didn't even think they would warranty the problem now because of my complaints of high rpm grinding before. He did manage to get me this "deal" but I'm not going to keep a car that has a rebuilt tranny after 10k miles and no warranty on it.

th1rd3y3

I don't know, they couldn't start working on it until tomorrow. I'm not exactly sure what they're going to find since, they haven't managed to find out what was wrong the last 2 times it was in the shop, but since it's at a lower rpm than my original complaint they figure there is definitely something wrong now. They can't just fall back on the "oh, the car can't handle" excuse.

th1rd3y3

Well I spoke with the service manager yesterday after having my car in the shop most of last week and this week. He said he found an "imperfection" on the second gear synchro, so they are replacing that. He also told me that they found something wrong with first gear (what I don't know) so they are replacing that and they are also replacing the shift fork (even though supposedly there's nothing wrong with it, he's just doing it to be safe).

Mazda still seems to think that this problem is my fault because I was shifting into second gear near 9000 rpms. Now it's not like I do this every time I'm in first, but I strongly feel that the car should be able to handle it and not break at 10k miles. Supposedly Mazda is replacing everything now at a "one-time courtesy" which is also crap since I've had this car less than a year and now any more problems I have with this POS transmission I'm out of the money.

I've already contacted the lemon law agency, so if this happens again it's going to the lemon law if Mazda doesn't step up.

MazdaspeedRx8

Im starting to have that problem in my 2005. Im having hard time shifting into 2nd at times. Its like i have to force it into 2nd.

irish8

I've read a few complaints concerning this issue. Maybe you should print off this thread and print off similar threads concerning this issue and bring it to your Dealer service Manager. My 8 is an early build date (July '03). I always drive spirited. 2nd gear changes at 9k rpm are common for me and never a grind. I'm sorry to hear youre having these issues. I hope it all works out.

Have you sent a letter to MNAO?

- Irish

truemagellen

ditto, mine is a May 2003 build...second ship to port...and I've never had any problems like this...actually the only time I had a nanosecond grind was when I was shifting to 6th with my hand on top of the shifter and the weight engaged Reverse...scariest nanosecond of my baby's life!

I'm starting to think either this is a newer build issue (would be funny since I've had to deal with so many TSBs my service department now call me about info on the 8!) or a user issue...sorry guys but I think its a user issue

th1rd3y3

Well mine is not exactly a new build (I think build date is around August 03, I'd check but I don't have my car ) and I'm not exactly sure how user error could even be the issue in my case. I've NEVER had problems with grinding in second gear until about 2000 miles ago. I posted about it and it turned out that my PPF and differential were torqued out of spec. Once that was fixed I had no problems until about 500 miles ago when it started doing it only at high rpms. It then became increasingly worse to the point where once the transmission was warmed up it would either grind or clunk into second gear at anything above 4k rpms.

I've never abused my transmission and I've been driving manual cars for about 6 years with no transmission problems in any of my other cars. If the entire problem ended up being the synchros wouldn't there have to be something wrong with them originally for them to crap out at only 10k miles? I've had cars that had well over 100k miles with more abuse than my 8 will ever sustain and still had no problems with the synchros.

On a side note, I do have letter prepared to send to MNAO if things don't go well. So far though the service manager at the dealership seems to be very helpful with everything. He's already told me he would help me out and make sure I'm happy with everything, which makes me feel better. So I suppose I will just wait and see what happens.

ezoneflyer

I haven't owned a Mazda anything, but having driven and repaired several
different brands of manual transmissions, I have a couple of thoughts....

Transmissions shift ratios by making gears slide along shafts... Connecting
different load paths through the gearbox.

The syncronizer is usually a bronze (or similar hard metal) cone shaped
section with teeth along outside that are the same shape as the gear teeth.
One is mounted on the end of each shifted gear so that it can rotate (like a
bearing of sorts). The syncro works by causing the outer section of a gear
to slide against the inner section and eventually acheive the same rotational
speed. Once the two sections of the shifted gear get to the same speed,
they can easily mesh together.

When a tranny grinds it is because the two gears aren't rotating at the same
speed at the instant that they mesh.

There are four things I can think of that may apply to this grinding:

- Grinding can be caused by a mis-adjusted clutch. If you have to push the
clutch all of the way to the floor in order for you to shift, it is misadjusted in
such a way likely to cause grinding. The engine must be completely disconnected
from the transmission (via the clutch) in order for the syncro to do its job.

- That brings up another (5th) possible cause. The input shaft to the
tranny rides in a pilot bearing/bushing that is in the tail of the engine crankshaft.
If this bearing isn't up to the task (worn, old, under designed), you'll have
problems with syncros - torque will be transmitted through the draggy bearing,
even with the clutch fully depressed.

- Wrong fluid. The tranny was designed to have stuff with a particular 'slipperiness'
for the syncros to work. Too slick and the syncro can't spool the gear up, and not
slick enough and the gear will slow down before engaging.

- Poor design. The jury is out on this (for the 8). Wrong materials, wrong geometry,
etc could cause problems. Since it's intermittent (not all cars suffering), I suspect
a build problem or adjustment issue.

- Wear. Doesn't make sense on a new car.

If I have problems with this, and they end up pulling my tranny, I am going to
ask them to check out the pilot bearing before they put it back together. I think
the mostly likely answer is clutch adjustment.

MAP

Gomez

Nice first post...Welcome to the forum .

Regards, Gomez.

rx8sportscar

I have a 2005, and have not had any probs, fingers crossed here

Sorry about yours

w0rm

Since i've broken the 'break-in' period I have started driving a little harder although I have not redlined it yet. I have encountered an out of place grind twice now going from 1st to 2nd.

th1rd3y3

That's some very good information. I should be picking my car up tomorrow so hopefully everything will be fixed and ready to go. I'm also hoping pretty high that this problem doesn't return. If it does, the lemon law agency is going to dealing with it from there.