E85 fuel mix for the RX-8
09-07-2011, 10:11 AM
#26
Not personally, but I have read of others attempting it... I was trying to find the post of a guy who ran E85 when I found this topic. I believe he had to solder the connections on his sending unit and cover the wires to protect it from corrosion. Still looking...
And? How does it run? Does it make more power? How many MPGs did you lose?
I CAN TELL YOU IF IT MAKES MORE POWER SINCE I HAVENT TAKE IT TO A DINO TO SE IF I HAVE ANY INCREASE OR LOSE OF POWER, FOR ME I FEEL IT THE SAME AND LIKE I SAID TO KEN I LOSE AROUND 20-25 MILES IN EACH TANK
^This in bold.
I can tell you that the only place likely to host that list is probably a convert-to-E85 website. Although unless there is a material compatible with only 10% Ethanol and not E85 that I am unaware of, it should be considered "accurate." The only way to confirm is to soak parts in E85. IF YOU RESEARCH FOR THE RX8 THE ONLY RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU WILL FIND IS TO CHANGE THE FUEL PUMP FOR THE WALBRO 255LPH FUEL PUMP TO PREVENT THE FUEL STARVATION IN HIGH RPMS
If the RX-8 fuel system wasn't safe with 10% Ethanol there would be engine fires and/or recalls
.
And? How does it run? Does it make more power? How many MPGs did you lose?
I CAN TELL YOU IF IT MAKES MORE POWER SINCE I HAVENT TAKE IT TO A DINO TO SE IF I HAVE ANY INCREASE OR LOSE OF POWER, FOR ME I FEEL IT THE SAME AND LIKE I SAID TO KEN I LOSE AROUND 20-25 MILES IN EACH TANK
^This in bold.
I can tell you that the only place likely to host that list is probably a convert-to-E85 website. Although unless there is a material compatible with only 10% Ethanol and not E85 that I am unaware of, it should be considered "accurate." The only way to confirm is to soak parts in E85. IF YOU RESEARCH FOR THE RX8 THE ONLY RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU WILL FIND IS TO CHANGE THE FUEL PUMP FOR THE WALBRO 255LPH FUEL PUMP TO PREVENT THE FUEL STARVATION IN HIGH RPMS
If the RX-8 fuel system wasn't safe with 10% Ethanol there would be engine fires and/or recalls
.
09-07-2011, 10:12 AM
#27
Did you take your engine apart and inspect it? Did you inspect all the plastics\orings etc of the fuel system? If not you have no data to back your "6months-no problems statement".
Anyway, talking about hard data. E85 requires different pcm trims that go beyond our pcm's auto-adjustability range (roughly +\-20%). So yes, using e85 affects your car.
The fact that it is proven to be corrosive on the housings and each and every scientific test demonstrates that it is detrimental for most fuel systems (and the environment) is clearly less important. lol
Anyway, talking about hard data. E85 requires different pcm trims that go beyond our pcm's auto-adjustability range (roughly +\-20%). So yes, using e85 affects your car.
The fact that it is proven to be corrosive on the housings and each and every scientific test demonstrates that it is detrimental for most fuel systems (and the environment) is clearly less important. lol
09-07-2011, 10:28 AM
#28
the site linked in the original post in this thread is still there, and does have rah-rah "e85 won't hurt your car" statements - with a disclaimer that if it does they're not responsible.
Imho, you can add 10% of almost anything to gas and it won't cause dire problems. Remember when it was routine to add a can of "dry gas" for every fillup in the winter?
I remember the days when racers running methanol would run their cars briefly on gas to purge the alcohol before putting the car away.
Anyway, i'm still waiting for fernando to back up his statements.
Ken
Imho, you can add 10% of almost anything to gas and it won't cause dire problems. Remember when it was routine to add a can of "dry gas" for every fillup in the winter?
I remember the days when racers running methanol would run their cars briefly on gas to purge the alcohol before putting the car away.
Anyway, i'm still waiting for fernando to back up his statements.
Ken
09-07-2011, 10:40 AM
#29
09-07-2011, 10:58 AM
#30
The Furai was mostly for the dumb americans and their "clean fuel" beliefs. Marketing hype. It even caught fire, it no longer exists. sorry.
The second article also states that the whole targa tasmania adopts that fuel, still with the dumb green reasoning behind it (which is fake, btw. Leaded petrol is nearly less polluting than ethanol!).
So? We don't have e85 here for a reason. Costs more and reduces engine life.
Proof of that? With the introduction of ethanol blends your government had to reduce the "average" expected life for the engines by a huge amount. That's it. They say it doesn't harm engines just because they're now required to last less. Smart move!
Video Removed. Keep the topic on the subject and not on others.
The second article also states that the whole targa tasmania adopts that fuel, still with the dumb green reasoning behind it (which is fake, btw. Leaded petrol is nearly less polluting than ethanol!).
So? We don't have e85 here for a reason. Costs more and reduces engine life.
Proof of that? With the introduction of ethanol blends your government had to reduce the "average" expected life for the engines by a huge amount. That's it. They say it doesn't harm engines just because they're now required to last less. Smart move!
Video Removed. Keep the topic on the subject and not on others.
09-07-2011, 11:17 AM
#33
they don't use the corn or the sugar actually they use the residues of it all the other material that we don't use they used to make the ethanol besides the humans have been doing ethanol for centuries in the creation of alcoholic beverages, just remember one day in the future we will run out of oil and we will have to use other type of combustible
09-07-2011, 11:19 AM
#34
You're actually converting food-grade crops to fuel-grade ones. That's why you pay more for general crop-related products (flour, fuel etc) as a result.
I'll add this to what Al says: You only produce so much ethanol because of the subsidies.
I'll add this to what Al says: You only produce so much ethanol because of the subsidies.
09-07-2011, 11:57 AM
#35
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while I am not a proponent of E85. Using corn(in this country/time) certainly isnt a bad idea though(in terms of it being food vs fuel). We have hundreds of tonnes of it going to waste every year. even more than gets rotated through "reserve stores"
check it out, im not joking. "food shortages" in the world are a man made fabrication.
Note that the use of subsidies to control the market value is the REASON we toss hundreds of tonnes of corn nearly every year, same thing in Japan with rice
check it out, im not joking. "food shortages" in the world are a man made fabrication.
You only produce so much ethanol because of the subsidies.
Last edited by paulmasoner; 09-07-2011 at 01:44 PM.
09-07-2011, 02:03 PM
#36
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while I am not a proponent of E85. Using corn(in this country/time) certainly isnt a bad idea though(in terms of it being food vs fuel). We have hundreds of tonnes of it going to waste every year. even more than gets rotated through "reserve stores"
check it out, im not joking. "food shortages" in the world are a man made fabrication.
check it out, im not joking. "food shortages" in the world are a man made fabrication.
It would, however, be nice if they went to pure E100, so that in addtion to flex fuel cars we'd have dual use fuel.
Ken
09-07-2011, 02:30 PM
#37
09-07-2011, 09:19 PM
#38
they don't use the corn or the sugar actually they use the residues of it all the other material that we don't use they used to make the ethanol besides the humans have been doing ethanol for centuries in the creation of alcoholic beverages, just remember one day in the future we will run out of oil and we will have to use other type of combustible
this simply means you don't know **** about this whole ethanol thing.
if u dunno/unsure of something, might as well stfu. it helps. thanks.
09-07-2011, 09:45 PM
#39
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i have been using e-85 for almost 6 months stray and the only thing that i have see is that i lose around 20 to 25 miles peer tank but i dont care since is cheaper i use my car every day to go every were the only thing that append to my car was the lose of some miles in my tank and in my first tank the mix was all **** up because the computer takes some time to adjust to the e-85 i have some others friends of mine and they use e-85 to and they dont have any issues with it in their cars, also there is a publication from mazda regarding the use of e-85 in their vehicles and they mention the rx-8 to be safe to use it with e-85 (i'm searching for the message)
I barely lived through the no-lead transition with a car that needed unleaded. I ultimately succumbed to the R-12 to R-134a transition when my stash of R-12 ran out. I don't want my 8 to go the same way.
My wife is currently shopping for a new car, and flex fuel is high on the requirement list. Not that I like the idea, but I don't want to get caught out. At least her current car, which uses R-134a, will be gone before the transition away from R-134a bites us. I guess we should also look for a new car that's flex-refrigerant.
Ken
09-07-2011, 09:49 PM
#40
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Ken
09-08-2011, 09:40 AM
#41
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The site linked in the original post in this thread is still there, and does have rah-rah "E85 won't hurt your car" statements - with a disclaimer that if it does they're not responsible.
IMHO, you can add 10% of almost anything to gas and it won't cause dire problems. Remember when it was routine to add a can of "Dry gas" for every fillup in the winter?
I remember the days when racers running methanol would run their cars briefly on gas to purge the alcohol before putting the car away.
Anyway, I'm still waiting for Fernando to back up his statements.
Ken
IMHO, you can add 10% of almost anything to gas and it won't cause dire problems. Remember when it was routine to add a can of "Dry gas" for every fillup in the winter?
I remember the days when racers running methanol would run their cars briefly on gas to purge the alcohol before putting the car away.
Anyway, I'm still waiting for Fernando to back up his statements.
Ken
Did you take your engine apart and inspect it? Did you inspect all the plastics\orings etc of the fuel system? If not you have no data to back your "6months-no problems statement".
Anyway, talking about hard data. E85 requires different pcm trims that go beyond our pcm's auto-adjustability range (roughly +\-20%). So yes, using e85 affects your car.
The fact that it is proven to be corrosive on the housings and each and every scientific test demonstrates that it is detrimental for most fuel systems (and the environment) is clearly less important. lol
Anyway, talking about hard data. E85 requires different pcm trims that go beyond our pcm's auto-adjustability range (roughly +\-20%). So yes, using e85 affects your car.
The fact that it is proven to be corrosive on the housings and each and every scientific test demonstrates that it is detrimental for most fuel systems (and the environment) is clearly less important. lol
If he has 6 months without a fuel leak that is a success. It wouldn't take that long for 10% Ethanol blend to eat through a component and moreso with E85. If Alcohol is exposed to outside air it turns into a stronger acid, vinegar. So the fuel system needs to be air tight or really bad things can happen.
I would still enjoy the pics from the o-rings and fuel components if he ever decided to inspect them. Just to be sure.
The +-20% adjustment is from the base trim. If the base trim is set for E85 than it wouldn't be a problem. This can be accomplished by adding more Ethanol slowly over time or can happen over several fuel ups. Very basic EFI information. Eg. If the base trim is E50 you could switch from a lower Ethanol blend to E85 and back so long as it doesn't exceed the adjustment window.
Kind of silly to say that Ethanol is bad for the rotors and housing since they're aluminum. If they weren't anodized they will corrode naturally from the elements or from the corrosive nature of RF Gasoline.
09-08-2011, 10:10 AM
#43
Not to mention the problem that it brings, both to hardware and humans. but guess what people are ok with stuff that they can't see, even if it would slowly but surely causes problems.
09-08-2011, 10:31 AM
#47
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From a more authoritative source:
-Lower fuel economy: while prices for E85 may currently be less per gallon than regular unleaded gasoline (due to current tax incentives), mileage also is lower. Typically vehicles consume 1.4 gallons of E85 for every gallon of regular gasoline they would otherwise use. Additionally, even with its tax incentives ethanol is often more expensive than gasoline.
-Corrosion: because the alcohol in ethanol corrodes aluminum, FFV components are made of stainless steel and E85 pumps must be modified or manufactured with stainless steel to prevent corrosion. Repeated exposure to E85 also corrodes the metal and rubber parts in older engines (pre-1988) designed primarily for gasoline.
-Cold starts: because E85 has a higher freezing temperature than gasoline, there may be cold start problems in severe cold weather. For that reason, ethanol content is lowered to a minimum of 70 percent ethanol in freezing weather conditions.
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_ethanol.htm
-Lower fuel economy: while prices for E85 may currently be less per gallon than regular unleaded gasoline (due to current tax incentives), mileage also is lower. Typically vehicles consume 1.4 gallons of E85 for every gallon of regular gasoline they would otherwise use. Additionally, even with its tax incentives ethanol is often more expensive than gasoline.
-Corrosion: because the alcohol in ethanol corrodes aluminum, FFV components are made of stainless steel and E85 pumps must be modified or manufactured with stainless steel to prevent corrosion. Repeated exposure to E85 also corrodes the metal and rubber parts in older engines (pre-1988) designed primarily for gasoline.
-Cold starts: because E85 has a higher freezing temperature than gasoline, there may be cold start problems in severe cold weather. For that reason, ethanol content is lowered to a minimum of 70 percent ethanol in freezing weather conditions.
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_ethanol.htm
09-08-2011, 10:34 AM
#48
The guy with the badass 20b rx8 (Angeljoelv?) runs E-85. I've never heard him complain about housing corrosion. The whole "it's bad to use a food as gas" argument is a moot point because the corn used is cattle grade and at the end of the process the corn is pressed into cakes and fed to cattle anyways. The fuel tables would definitely have to be adjusted and I would add a sohn OMP adjuster to be safe. I would also run a bigger pump to handle the increase in fuel demand, the injectors should be sufficient though.
The biggest problem with ethanol is the cost. The only way ethanol is competitive with gas is government subsidies. If there were no subsidies it would cost about $5 a gallon on top of the decrease in gas mileage. So as gas approaches those prices you will begin to see e25, e50, e75, e85 with more prevalence.
Another problem with ethanol is cold weather. In colder climates e85 changes to a winter blend I think usually like e50 so the ecu has to be able to change fueling needs pretty easily. Southern areas wouldn't have to worry about that though.
The biggest problem with ethanol is the cost. The only way ethanol is competitive with gas is government subsidies. If there were no subsidies it would cost about $5 a gallon on top of the decrease in gas mileage. So as gas approaches those prices you will begin to see e25, e50, e75, e85 with more prevalence.
Another problem with ethanol is cold weather. In colder climates e85 changes to a winter blend I think usually like e50 so the ecu has to be able to change fueling needs pretty easily. Southern areas wouldn't have to worry about that though.
09-08-2011, 11:59 AM
#50
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