E85 fuel mix for the RX-8
02-10-2006, 07:45 AM
#1
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E85 fuel mix for the RX-8
http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php
What is the consensus on using E85 in the Rotary Engine. The MAzda RX8 is not listed as an E85 fuel vehicle but many other are. Would the Renisis be able to handle E85 in it's stock form? I would think so..
By the way, I was linked to that website becasue GM had banner add promoting E85..... I can hear the winds of change
What is the consensus on using E85 in the Rotary Engine. The MAzda RX8 is not listed as an E85 fuel vehicle but many other are. Would the Renisis be able to handle E85 in it's stock form? I would think so..
By the way, I was linked to that website becasue GM had banner add promoting E85..... I can hear the winds of change
02-10-2006, 07:48 AM
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02-10-2006, 09:16 AM
#3
The ECU pobably would need different programming to function on tha fuel. The open loop areas would be too lean. The closed loop areas would probably adapt somewhat to the different Lamba readings...but would not like the amount of fuel it would have to inject to get the proper mixture. The alcohol would probably require different MOP settings as well to ensure the oil wasn't washed out of the rotor chambers....
So I would guess....NO it won't work
So I would guess....NO it won't work
02-10-2006, 01:58 PM
#7
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its actually on page 4-2 as you can see in my post in this previous thread
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=ethanol
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=ethanol
02-10-2006, 02:33 PM
#8
it only has 2/3 the energy of gasoline which equates to 10 - 15% lower mileage PLUS you have to run a much richer fuel/air ratio with E85 than gasoline, the lower mileage is offset by the lower cost/gallon, but you just made your gas tank the equivalent 9 gallons or so (guesstimate) if it was on gasoline, hope you like to stop and refuel often
Last edited by TeamRX8; 02-10-2006 at 02:36 PM.
02-12-2006, 09:14 AM
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Apparently, the RX8 and most Mazda gasoline engined vehicles can run with a mixture of gasoline with maximum 10% ethanol. Runnig on E85 would require engine hardware and PCM software changes.
Fabrice
Fabrice
02-12-2006, 11:26 AM
#10
Mmmmm... Rotary Donut
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And I would like to add that when I moved from Florida (0% ethanol) to Illinois (10% ethanol), mileage in both of my vehicles dropped noticeably. My preference is obviously for no corn in my gas tank :P
02-12-2006, 03:53 PM
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Acetone as an additive ???
I have a diesel VW golf now in the family, the 1.9 TDI. I was reading on the website, www.TDIclub.com about some peolpe adding 3-4 ounces of Acetone to a tank of Diesel or gasoline and getting increases in full economy etc. (More in gas than diesel)
I posted it here once but no reply, anyone heard of or have any understanding or experience with this chemistry? They claim it does boast milage figure noticably but don't overdo it, max of 3-4 ounces per tankful (i.e. 15 gallons in the gas tank)
Comments ???????
Jeff B.
I posted it here once but no reply, anyone heard of or have any understanding or experience with this chemistry? They claim it does boast milage figure noticably but don't overdo it, max of 3-4 ounces per tankful (i.e. 15 gallons in the gas tank)
Comments ???????
Jeff B.
02-12-2006, 03:56 PM
#12
Acetone? Don't know....but Toluene is one of the more common octane enhancers...can't see how 3 OZ of anything will do much. You need to add a lot to make a difference.
This is why the " Octane booster" additives are ineffective................
This is why the " Octane booster" additives are ineffective................
02-12-2006, 04:19 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by xabjw4
I have a diesel VW golf now in the family, the 1.9 TDI. I was reading on the website, www.TDIclub.com about some peolpe adding 3-4 ounces of Acetone
Jeff B.
Jeff B.
search is your freind
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=toluene
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=Toluene
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=toluene
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=toluene
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=toluene
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...hlight=acetone
11-15-2007, 09:36 PM
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Acetone in an RX-8
I have been using a 4 oz. to 10 Gal. ratio as per Wikipedia link.
Much quicker response (ie. feels like a boost in HP).
MPG only about a +2. Even with lower octane fuels.
Tires seem to break loose easier, so watch it accelerating in curves with DSC off.
Unless you like a little drift!
Much quicker response (ie. feels like a boost in HP).
MPG only about a +2. Even with lower octane fuels.
Tires seem to break loose easier, so watch it accelerating in curves with DSC off.
Unless you like a little drift!
Last edited by sasasse; 11-15-2007 at 09:42 PM. Reason: No title
11-15-2007, 09:41 PM
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Renisis and E-85
Read the warnings!
Yes E-85 is 105 Octane, but the Alcohol will dilute/pollute the oil.
If you want to try it: I would suggest only one tank, and just before an oil change ; with a flush.
Yes E-85 is 105 Octane, but the Alcohol will dilute/pollute the oil.
If you want to try it: I would suggest only one tank, and just before an oil change ; with a flush.
08-26-2011, 08:43 PM
#17
did some research about the "myths" and the cons of e85... some good news came up... so as it turns out, e85will not in no way harm anything.
Im going to copy paste the ones that are relevant. i did not write these...
1. E85 Ethanol is corrosive?
Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Gasoline is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.
On side note, gas contains water too. Ever hear of dry gas?
2. If I put E85 in my gas tank, it will eat it away?
If your car was built in the old days, it was had a lead coated, steel tank. The water in ethanol would cause the tank to rust from the inside out. The government mandated that all gas in the USA contain 10% ethanol to help reduce tail pipe emissions. In the 1980s, automakers made vehicles with fuel systems to be ethanol and rust tolerant. Gas tanks began to contain polymers and Teflon which are extremely durable.
4. Ethanol will burn up my engine?
Ethanol has a lower ignition point than gas. Ethanol has about 115 octane and E85 has 105 octane. It burns cooler and will extend engine life by preventing the burning of engine valves and prevent the build-up of olefins in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.
5. Ethanol will ruin gaskets, seals, rings and more?
Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.
The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.
Today's vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water.
Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.
6. E85 will eat my rubber fuel lines?
This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced so the concerns of a 20 year old car or newer having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated.
7. E85 will destroy my fuel pump?
E85 won’t destroy your fuel pump. If you convert a high mileage vehicle to Flex Fuel, the E85 will cause the sediment in the gas tank to dissolve and then get sucked up by the fuel pump. It is believed that this sediment may shorten the life of the pump of your higher mileage vehicle (100,000+). We have had no reports from customers with damaged fuel pumps.
so basically, unless your driving something older than 1985. you'll be just fine...
Im going to copy paste the ones that are relevant. i did not write these...
1. E85 Ethanol is corrosive?
Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Gasoline is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.
On side note, gas contains water too. Ever hear of dry gas?
2. If I put E85 in my gas tank, it will eat it away?
If your car was built in the old days, it was had a lead coated, steel tank. The water in ethanol would cause the tank to rust from the inside out. The government mandated that all gas in the USA contain 10% ethanol to help reduce tail pipe emissions. In the 1980s, automakers made vehicles with fuel systems to be ethanol and rust tolerant. Gas tanks began to contain polymers and Teflon which are extremely durable.
4. Ethanol will burn up my engine?
Ethanol has a lower ignition point than gas. Ethanol has about 115 octane and E85 has 105 octane. It burns cooler and will extend engine life by preventing the burning of engine valves and prevent the build-up of olefins in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.
5. Ethanol will ruin gaskets, seals, rings and more?
Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.
The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.
Today's vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water.
Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.
6. E85 will eat my rubber fuel lines?
This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced so the concerns of a 20 year old car or newer having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated.
7. E85 will destroy my fuel pump?
E85 won’t destroy your fuel pump. If you convert a high mileage vehicle to Flex Fuel, the E85 will cause the sediment in the gas tank to dissolve and then get sucked up by the fuel pump. It is believed that this sediment may shorten the life of the pump of your higher mileage vehicle (100,000+). We have had no reports from customers with damaged fuel pumps.
so basically, unless your driving something older than 1985. you'll be just fine...
09-04-2011, 02:30 PM
#19
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09-05-2011, 11:30 AM
#22
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And can you describe the tests you performed? And the results? In particular, the effect of E85 on power output and longevity.
Ken
09-06-2011, 03:20 AM
#23
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Not personally, but I have read of others attempting it... I was trying to find the post of a guy who ran E85 when I found this topic. I believe he had to solder the connections on his sending unit and cover the wires to protect it from corrosion. Still looking...
And? How does it run? Does it make more power? How many MPGs did you lose?
^This in bold.
I can tell you that the only place likely to host that list is probably a convert-to-E85 website. Although unless there is a material compatible with only 10% Ethanol and not E85 that I am unaware of, it should be considered "accurate." The only way to confirm is to soak parts in E85.
If the RX-8 fuel system wasn't safe with 10% Ethanol there would be engine fires and/or recalls
.
I can tell you that the only place likely to host that list is probably a convert-to-E85 website. Although unless there is a material compatible with only 10% Ethanol and not E85 that I am unaware of, it should be considered "accurate." The only way to confirm is to soak parts in E85.
If the RX-8 fuel system wasn't safe with 10% Ethanol there would be engine fires and/or recalls
.
09-06-2011, 05:42 PM
#24
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Not personally, but I have read of others attempting it... I was trying to find the post of a guy who ran E85 when I found this topic. I believe he had to solder the connections on his sending unit and cover the wires to protect it from corrosion. Still looking...
I can tell you that the only place likely to host that list is probably a convert-to-E85 website. Although unless there is a material compatible with only 10% Ethanol and not E85 that I am unaware of, it should be considered "accurate." The only way to confirm is to soak parts in E85.
If the RX-8 fuel system wasn't safe with 10% Ethanol there would be engine fires and/or recalls.
I can tell you that the only place likely to host that list is probably a convert-to-E85 website. Although unless there is a material compatible with only 10% Ethanol and not E85 that I am unaware of, it should be considered "accurate." The only way to confirm is to soak parts in E85.
If the RX-8 fuel system wasn't safe with 10% Ethanol there would be engine fires and/or recalls
.IMHO, you can add 10% of almost anything to gas and it won't cause dire problems. Remember when it was routine to add a can of "Dry gas" for every fillup in the winter?
I remember the days when racers running methanol would run their cars briefly on gas to purge the alcohol before putting the car away.
Anyway, I'm still waiting for Fernando to back up his statements.
Ken
09-07-2011, 10:01 AM
#25
i have been using e-85 for almost 6 months stray and the only thing that i have see is that i lose around 20 to 25 miles peer tank but i dont care since is cheaper i use my car every day to go every were the only thing that append to my car was the lose of some miles in my tank and in my first tank the mix was all **** up because the computer takes some time to adjust to the e-85 i have some others friends of mine and they use e-85 to and they dont have any issues with it in their cars, also there is a publication from mazda regarding the use of e-85 in their vehicles and they mention the rx-8 to be safe to use it with e-85 (i'm searching for the message)
