CEL - Weird readings
09-01-2004, 11:37 AM
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CEL - Weird readings
My car threw a CEL Monday morning, felt like it went into limp mode. I dropped by the dealer today to have it checked (CEL went out Monday afternoon and hasn't returned).
The service rep showed me what was recorded the main points were:
Clutch out
Throttle at 15.6%
Speed at 0 mph
Load at 100%
He then started asking me if had was "getting on it" or doing burnouts.
I told him that I wasn't "getting on it" that morning nor have I ever done a burnout. I explained that I was driving the car fast Sunday evening before I parked it. I suggested that maybe a bit of sand on the road had caused a little slippage (the entrance to my subdivision has gravel shoulders that spill into the road a bit, typically one of the rear tires will slip a little) that morning but that the car hadn't been over 3k rpms before the CEL came on.
He's calling Mazda to try to diagnose.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Currently driving a 4cyl, 4dr Ford Focus, Enterprise rental on Mazda.
The service rep showed me what was recorded the main points were:
Clutch out
Throttle at 15.6%
Speed at 0 mph
Load at 100%
He then started asking me if had was "getting on it" or doing burnouts.
I told him that I wasn't "getting on it" that morning nor have I ever done a burnout. I explained that I was driving the car fast Sunday evening before I parked it. I suggested that maybe a bit of sand on the road had caused a little slippage (the entrance to my subdivision has gravel shoulders that spill into the road a bit, typically one of the rear tires will slip a little) that morning but that the car hadn't been over 3k rpms before the CEL came on.
He's calling Mazda to try to diagnose.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Currently driving a 4cyl, 4dr Ford Focus, Enterprise rental on Mazda.
09-01-2004, 03:58 PM
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Just spoke with service rep...
After further diagnostics they have determined that the crank sensor needs to be replaced (I guess that would account for the 100% load reading and the subsequent shift into limp mode).
My questions now:
Why does a crank sensor go bad (is it something I did)?
Is this all there is to it or is this the sign of some other problem?
Thanks,
After further diagnostics they have determined that the crank sensor needs to be replaced (I guess that would account for the 100% load reading and the subsequent shift into limp mode).
My questions now:
Why does a crank sensor go bad (is it something I did)?
Is this all there is to it or is this the sign of some other problem?
Thanks,
09-01-2004, 04:08 PM
#3
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what was with the crap questioning? did he show you what code was stored? does he mean the e-shaft positon sensor? are they sure th sensor is bad? maybe it just needs re-set. what if any work has been done on your car previously?
09-01-2004, 04:24 PM
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to clear the plate profile from memory and reset all you have to do is the 20 brake stomp thing. thats what that procedure is actually for- here' the original tsb on that
also here are some things to look at as far as the sensor goes- not that it will help you if they are already replacing it. sorry its in word i dont think i can translate it to a pdf.
also here are some things to look at as far as the sensor goes- not that it will help you if they are already replacing it. sorry its in word i dont think i can translate it to a pdf.
09-02-2004, 07:55 AM
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Thanks for the info.
I didn't see the code itself. I was shown what the mechanic wrote down in relation to the code. There were a few more numbers on the sheet I saw but I didn't know what they corresponed to.
From my techs/reps point of view I can see why he would ask (although I did feel a tad uncomfortable with that line of questioning) since we've only spoken briefly in the past and he doesn't know how I drive. I wouldn't want to have tried to diagnose a mechanical problem if the car was doing burnouts and just needed a quick reset either. To me the data didn't indicate a burnout but maybe they don't think like I do (can't do a burnout with the throttle at 15.6%). It led to a nice conversation about the Skyline Drive senic drive with the Z club and how well the car handles while looking at an FD they have in that is for sale in the service bays.
They told me it was the "Crank Sensor" which I take to me the E shaft sensor.
My car is bone stock. It has the "M" flash, 10,2xx miles on the odo, and about a quart of oil in between changes, changed every 3,000 miles).
I didn't see the code itself. I was shown what the mechanic wrote down in relation to the code. There were a few more numbers on the sheet I saw but I didn't know what they corresponed to.
From my techs/reps point of view I can see why he would ask (although I did feel a tad uncomfortable with that line of questioning) since we've only spoken briefly in the past and he doesn't know how I drive. I wouldn't want to have tried to diagnose a mechanical problem if the car was doing burnouts and just needed a quick reset either. To me the data didn't indicate a burnout but maybe they don't think like I do (can't do a burnout with the throttle at 15.6%). It led to a nice conversation about the Skyline Drive senic drive with the Z club and how well the car handles while looking at an FD they have in that is for sale in the service bays.
They told me it was the "Crank Sensor" which I take to me the E shaft sensor.
My car is bone stock. It has the "M" flash, 10,2xx miles on the odo, and about a quart of oil in between changes, changed every 3,000 miles).
09-09-2004, 08:46 AM
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The saga continues:
Aliright so I picked the car up last Thurday with it's new sensor and everything seemed fine over the weekend (drove about 500 miles).
Yesterday I stopped at a 7-11 and when I started the car the TCS and CEL remained on after startup.
The car goes back in again on Monday and I'll be driving another Ford Focus (yuck).
Has anyone had the TCS and CEL on at the same time? Any other ideas? (I don't think my service dept. has a clue here).
Aliright so I picked the car up last Thurday with it's new sensor and everything seemed fine over the weekend (drove about 500 miles).
Yesterday I stopped at a 7-11 and when I started the car the TCS and CEL remained on after startup.
The car goes back in again on Monday and I'll be driving another Ford Focus (yuck).
Has anyone had the TCS and CEL on at the same time? Any other ideas? (I don't think my service dept. has a clue here).
09-09-2004, 02:06 PM
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The last fix they performed was to replace the sensor. I would hope the new sensor didn't become "dirty" within 500 miles or every other RX-8 on the planet would throw this code every 500 miles.
I'm assuming that is the same list that they are looking at.
So next I guess they'll need to "fix" (reflash) my PCM?
I'm assuming that is the same list that they are looking at.
So next I guess they'll need to "fix" (reflash) my PCM?
09-09-2004, 04:35 PM
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I've got the same problems with my car, the CEL already on for a week . Suddenly 2 days ago the car felt has no power at all, at first gear the car cannot reach the red line (9000rpm) even with the pedal full pressed to the floor. It stuck at 7000rpm. It likes the rev so heavy and the car cant run.. 
I went to mazda service this morning to have it checked with WDS, first we select a Selft-Test (Check All) and the result shows CEL code P0704 (Clutch-switch input circuit problem ON 2 CCM). Then we run a Pin-point Test for PCM (KOEO) to make sure the CEL is caused of the clutch-switch problem not from pcm error.. After the tests we followed the repair procedure shows on the screen that instructing to remove and check the clutch-switch. We found that the clutch-switch button is broken, hmnn i think it was happened when kicking the clutch pedal to fast and hard when changing the gear.. Changing the part with new make the CEL comes off without even have to reset it using WDS. First i thought that all the problems has gone, but it wasnt. The CEL has off but the car still cant run! Why? I dont know.. I try solving the problem by reprogram the pcm with new calibration. But the results is worst, the car run more slower than before! The mechanic told me maybe there is a congestion inside catalyc and muffler that make exaust air hard to flow. But they dont have time to check it out, so tomorrow i have to come back again.. Can somebody here help me??
Btw, sowy 4bad english.. huehehe..
I went to mazda service this morning to have it checked with WDS, first we select a Selft-Test (Check All) and the result shows CEL code P0704 (Clutch-switch input circuit problem ON 2 CCM). Then we run a Pin-point Test for PCM (KOEO) to make sure the CEL is caused of the clutch-switch problem not from pcm error.. After the tests we followed the repair procedure shows on the screen that instructing to remove and check the clutch-switch. We found that the clutch-switch button is broken, hmnn i think it was happened when kicking the clutch pedal to fast and hard when changing the gear.. Changing the part with new make the CEL comes off without even have to reset it using WDS. First i thought that all the problems has gone, but it wasnt. The CEL has off but the car still cant run! Why? I dont know.. I try solving the problem by reprogram the pcm with new calibration. But the results is worst, the car run more slower than before! The mechanic told me maybe there is a congestion inside catalyc and muffler that make exaust air hard to flow. But they dont have time to check it out, so tomorrow i have to come back again..
Can somebody here help me??Btw, sowy 4bad english.. huehehe..
09-10-2004, 07:50 AM
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lvckyluke - What you have described sounds like "limp" mode, although from my understating of "limp" mode the CEL or TCS lights should be on when it's engaged.
"limp" mode will not allow the engine to rev (past 4k or 5k I think) and IIRC it also limits power output. I don't remember how to clear it but I thought it required disconnecting the battery then recalibrating the DSC (if you have it).
If you do a search for some "dyno" threads or "limp mode" there should be a wealth of information here.
"limp" mode will not allow the engine to rev (past 4k or 5k I think) and IIRC it also limits power output. I don't remember how to clear it but I thought it required disconnecting the battery then recalibrating the DSC (if you have it).
If you do a search for some "dyno" threads or "limp mode" there should be a wealth of information here.
09-10-2004, 09:42 AM
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Just replacing the catalyc-converter with new one and the car back to normal..
So it wasnt caused of that limp-mode thing. I found that the contents of catalyc is decomposed and covering the cat-filter, so it holdup the air flow. I dont know why the cat wrecked that fast, the car bought on march and just running 6000Km..
Btw, if limp-mode turn on the CEL when its engaged, then WDS should report it..
I do have DSC, doesnt all RX8 equipped with it..? And what do you mean with recalibrating DSC, how to do it?
So it wasnt caused of that limp-mode thing. I found that the contents of catalyc is decomposed and covering the cat-filter, so it holdup the air flow. I dont know why the cat wrecked that fast, the car bought on march and just running 6000Km..
Btw, if limp-mode turn on the CEL when its engaged, then WDS should report it..
I do have DSC, doesnt all RX8 equipped with it..? And what do you mean with recalibrating DSC, how to do it?
09-10-2004, 10:52 AM
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Many of the cats have been going bad because the engine is sending too much unburnt fuel into it (rich).
Here in the US the base RX-8s do not come equipped with DSC. If your car loses power (disconnect battery) the next time you go to start it you will have to turn the steering wheel to it's stops to recalibrate the DSC system. There are several threads that talk about this and it is in the manual as well.
Here in the US the base RX-8s do not come equipped with DSC. If your car loses power (disconnect battery) the next time you go to start it you will have to turn the steering wheel to it's stops to recalibrate the DSC system. There are several threads that talk about this and it is in the manual as well.
09-17-2004, 09:10 AM
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Ok I've firgued out that my CEL is only being thrown at startup (never while driving) and my CEL will extinguish itself after 4 startups (remove key completely). The CEL is also accompanied 50% of the time by the TCS light.
Car goes to the dealer on Monday.
Car goes to the dealer on Monday.
09-20-2004, 04:14 PM
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Service rep just called. They wanted to replace the sensor again so I reminded him that we just did that. The code thrown was PO336...the same code as last time. They have been consulting with Mazda NA and going by whatever playbook they have.
Currently driving: Chevy Colorado LS 4dr 4x4 (not nearly as bad as Ford Focus).
Currently driving: Chevy Colorado LS 4dr 4x4 (not nearly as bad as Ford Focus).
09-22-2004, 03:40 PM
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Ok. Now I'm pissed. They had my car for three days, let everyone in the world drive it (service rep, mechanic, manager, service manager) and are refusing to do any work to it. I clearly stated that the light only comes on during startup and never while driving. There clearly was an error code recorded in the computer.
So I asked "So next time I need to bring it in with the CEL still on?"
Service rep "Yes."
I'm sorry but this is bullshit. When the light comes on I call the dealer and make an appointment (typically 1 week later). Am I supposed to leave the car running for that week. I know when I get there to pick it up I can cause the CEL merely by starting the car a few dozen times (It threw it 3 times in one week). There was absolutely no need for them to give everyone a chance to drive my baby and use my gas.
Should I just find another dealer? Is this acceptable behavior regarding customer service? Should I call MNA? Is there anything I can do to get my car fixed?
So I asked "So next time I need to bring it in with the CEL still on?"
Service rep "Yes."
I'm sorry but this is bullshit. When the light comes on I call the dealer and make an appointment (typically 1 week later). Am I supposed to leave the car running for that week. I know when I get there to pick it up I can cause the CEL merely by starting the car a few dozen times (It threw it 3 times in one week). There was absolutely no need for them to give everyone a chance to drive my baby and use my gas.
Should I just find another dealer? Is this acceptable behavior regarding customer service? Should I call MNA? Is there anything I can do to get my car fixed?
09-22-2004, 03:59 PM
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so their reaction to the code was to give it back and tell you to forget about it? maybe they do need to replace the sensor. maybe the one they put in was damaged or just bad to start with.
09-23-2004, 07:46 AM
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Basically yes. The manager decided that since they couldn't get the CEL to appear while they drove the car that, even though there was a PO336 code stored and I stated that it only occurs at startup, there is nothing wrong with the car. I'm thinking that I'll just have to change dealerships when the vehicle throws the code again. I am going to file a long complaint with Mazda North America and hope that I can get another dealer to take me into their service department. I think that's about all I can do.
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