Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Well with the supercharger you can get 260 on a 4 port auto and maybe after the SoCal Dyno Days it will produce more.........

Have to ask 09Factor about a turbo on the a/t.

09Factor

Check my new build thread Tuesday sometime.

/threadjack

tofu_box

Well quick update

The Water to Air Intercooler and the AEM Intake is in, and it made a huge difference to my intake temperature as compared to the top mount IC & In hood pod filter.

Basically pre mods, i saw intake temp at MAF of roughly 12-13 degrees above ambiance at cruise, 40+ at idle.

Now with the AEM it is roughly about 2-3 degree above ambiance and roughly +11 at idle due to hot air blown from fans.

Now since i document all my findings we wielded the sensor temps for pre IC and after IC before embarking on this, on average we saw about a 30 degree drop after SC. Now we see roughly 50 degree drop after SC.

Horsepower wise there was no big difference amongst the two, however the A/F showed changes, where it was leaning out at roughly 13-14 A/F using same tune as before which were at 11-12 A/F. So this tells me more air is going into the engine, and it is making the power as it was before but the engine is having a easier time, and by decreasing the intake temp, it would be *safer* (not safe) to embark on increasing boost from 7.5psi to 10-12.

However there was a gain of around 40-50nm of torque

I also installed the 4.77 Final drive, no noise everything was OEM Mazda.

Now before you say my butt dyno is not correct, i got statistics to back it.

On average it took 500-600 more RPMs to achieve the same speed as before using the 4.3 Final drive.

and a few stats for example was in 3rd at 100 kmph it originally produced 242nm of torque now it is sitting at around 300nm of torque.

I'll get the data sheet off the mechanics to follow through with a more comprehensive listing of statistics.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

You don't make more torque at the engine by changing the diff ratio . Tell your mechanic to recalculate .....


IC changes sound worthwhile - good job .

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Though at a given RPM in a given gear, changing the overall gear ratio between the engine and the rubber will change the amount of torque being applied to the pavement at that moment.



Unless the diff is the one sitting in the driver's seat

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

When measuring torque we want a number that relates back to what the engine rpm is . You don't magically make more torque at the engine by changing the gear/diff ratio - even though more torque may be applied to the pavement. Think about it

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

100% agree. I get exactly what you are saying. Just pointing out that a car can put more (or less) torque to the ground in a given gear by changing the gear ratio. The gear is simply a torque converter if you will.

An engine making 300nm of torque at it's peak doesn't put 300nm of torque to the ground in every gear at that RPM. it only will if the final gear result between the engine and the ground is 1:1. 1st gear uses the same engine torque number, but multiplies it before putting it to the ground, 2nd gear multiplies as well, but at a lower multiplication factor, etc...

The way he stated it is mostly incorrect or misleading, since it implies a change in engine torque, but changing from a 4.444 to a 4.777 WILL result in an increased torque 'pull' when comparing the same transmission gear. Whether or not it's actually faster depends on the circumstances, as you have to shift sooner, etc... If he re-did a dyno without changing the gearing information used, then the machine could easily be reporting a false increase.


Mostly just semantics and word choice, but it's easy to send the wrong message with this stuff

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

/\ yes . Sorry , I thought you were agreeing with the number he gave us .

tofu_box

Man you people take abit of time to look at the actual post. In what way did i say i got torque with the diff. I obtained torque with thw w2a ic. I already stated the same speed is now 600 rpm higher meaning the torque is from the higherpowerband. People would only go shorter final drive the nake acceralation faster from a x to x speed. So please tell me in what context i said thw difd gave me more torque?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

this

don't sweat it , we know what you meant now .

tofu_box

Yea peak torque i obtained due to the ic and colder air allowing for more fuel. Anyways brettus do you know how to put more fuel in on protunner above 1.7 or is that the capacity?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

If HP was similar (across the rpm range)-then torque didn't change much either .The two measurements are linked via a mathematical equation so it's an impossibility for one to stay the same while the other goes up . That was the point . Show us the dynos and it may become clearer .

Do you mean more than 170% load ? Your maps should be set up for 200% load if Mark gave you a basemap .

tofu_box

I dunno brettus,

Basically the torque curve was exactly the same but the peak after IC and tune increased by 30-40 (not 50 my bad)

I'll try grab the dynos for u today.

What i mean is in protuner, my mechanic is tuning through the air fuel ratios 3d table.

i need abit more fuel at 8000 rpm, so around 1.75 to 1.8

But everytime we change it, it automatically goes back to 1.7

We did use the base map.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Lets take it to pm

tofu_box

Hi All

Lost comp in my rear rotor, dunno what reason, maybe 130,000 kms is just getting abit too old for a FI renesis

Anyways new motor going in, 4 port still

Rohan from Xtreme/Guru going to assemble

This is the proposed *goodies* being done to it, which is commencing coming Monday

Grind & Nitrite Plates
Dowell Engine
Porting of Intake & Exhaust
3mm Rotor Apex Grooves
Balance Rotating Assembly
Isotropic Finish Eccentric Shaft
Replace Stationary Gears with Manual Version
Factory Race Rotor Bearings
Manual Center Plate (bigger ports)
Ceramic Apex Seals

Regards
Jason

09Factor

So will you be provided pics of the tear down and build? If so please share, i always like see the before and after.

tofu_box

Hi 09, i am not sure if ill be doing a complete tear down as i had a second *as new* motor.

I will endeavor to catch as many photos as i can along the way, but with me recently graduating and working full time it may be hard to fit in the time to drive down to my mechanics which is a good 30 min drive everytime they do something.

Regards
Jason

tofu_box

Spare engine has been pulled down and plates has been treated, Xtreme rotary will be doing a CNC porting on both exhaust and intake in the coming week, i was told it be the first renesis in the world to under go that treatment? no idea.

The engine is schedule to be completed in 2-3 weeks as we are waiting on the ceramic apex seals to arrive as there is a supply shortage, i will be going down on the day they put everything together and will endeavor to take as much photo as possible.

The original engine tear down will occur at a later date, at the moment we upped the boost to around +2.5psi at any given rpm range when the S/C kicks in, new 870 cc secondary injectors are in.

All original piping will under go ceramic black coating including W2A IC Core.

But at the very moment my rear rotor is somehow hanging on still! So in response to this we are dynoing the **** outta the original engine and getting everything right, and making sure this engine is beyond the grave to get the new engine roughly tuned and ready to go for the break in KMs, We are also sussing potential problems.

First discovery was even though the mixtures was correct my original injectors were completely overloaded and was working stuck open with no pulse.

Due to increase in boost and it kicking in earlier, in a attempt not to overdrive the SC Unit too much, we are scaling rpm back down 7.5 as per factory from original intended target of 8.5.

Also saw the difference between factory/steel/ceramic apex seals through a angle grinder and wow the OEM apex are fragile.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Too fragile for FI IMO .

tofu_box

best advice ever was to wear goggles when he put the hammer to those oem seals

tofu_box

Quick Update

New Pulley is in, injectors are in, maf/injectors are rescaled, just tuning on old engine now to get ready for the new one.

Reduced Redline back to 7.5k rpm

Curve is much better, boost comes in much earlier, hitting 3psi of boost at 3k as opposed to 5k, peaking at precisely 9.0psi at 7250 rpm, torque has shifted left :P

Pulled really well, gained about 18-20 rwkw @ 7200rpm @ 69 comp as opposed to original 8500 rpm @ 97-98 comp did not want to overdrive SC unit too much but curve was rising like Mt Everest potentially much more power at top end, tune still not complete due to most likely cat (mechanic's pet?) flying out of exhaust, which made me loose 60 rwkw, gain 2 pounds of boost, and gave me a shiny check engine light.

So far so good, anyone know if cat pieces went into the muffler, would i need to replace muffler?

tofu_box

Turned out the Davidsport cats blew threw the midpipe, plugged the resonator rest stuck at the bend. The o2 sensor cracked apart under pressure and heat.

And some early pics of the treated plates and dowel holes

Enjoys

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Isn't FI fun ?


Man those dowel holes don't leave much meat behind ....

tofu_box

I thought that, but i realised i gotta trust my engine builder, and Xtreme is best in business

Tell me about it, just as we got tune right, everything look good, zoom zoom boom... literally :P

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

how much is the dowelling work costing you ?