can auto be as powerful as manual?
03-14-2008, 03:59 AM
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can auto be as powerful as manual?
hey everyone, im new to this. i drive a suzuki swift at the moment and very intrested in getting an rx8. i want auto but they seem very rare, so just wondering is the auto lacking in power compared to manual? if so is there ways of making it just as powerful? any comments are so helpfull, thanks
03-14-2008, 06:58 AM
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the leading car sales web site in Oz is the www.carsales.com.au web site.
I spent 2 minutes & found 5 x private + 2 x dealer AUTOMATICS for sale in VIC.
Car sales automatic RX-8 page
Or try the link above.
As for the same power. The series-II 6-sp auto is due for release in mid 2008 onto the Aussie market. They share the same 6-port 13B-MSP engine, just with different ECU programs. All Aussie series-I auto's are 4-port 13B-MSP engines. You will be working hard to get its power rating equal to the 6-ports power.
REgards
I spent 2 minutes & found 5 x private + 2 x dealer AUTOMATICS for sale in VIC.
Car sales automatic RX-8 page
Or try the link above.
As for the same power. The series-II 6-sp auto is due for release in mid 2008 onto the Aussie market. They share the same 6-port 13B-MSP engine, just with different ECU programs. All Aussie series-I auto's are 4-port 13B-MSP engines. You will be working hard to get its power rating equal to the 6-ports power.
REgards
Last edited by DMRH; 03-14-2008 at 07:02 AM.
03-14-2008, 07:19 AM
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well you see i only have $40,000 aussie dollars to spend so its the 04 and 05 models im looking at even tho id love an 06 07, so maybe manual is the way to go?
03-14-2008, 07:26 AM
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haha yes they are indeed! if i lived in the US i would be buying my dream car A CORVETTE! i could get it for the same amount im going to spend on this rx8! haha your lucky
03-14-2008, 07:51 AM
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so there are modifications that can be done? im asking because i know my brother took his auto holden caprice somewhere and he claims its just as good as the manaual now, but im not sure if this applies with the rx8
03-14-2008, 01:06 PM
#9
I'll snap his neck.
If you do the exact same mods to an auto and a manual, the manual will still be faster because it has a 1500 rpm higher redline and less driveline loss.
But it is possible to mod an auto to be faster than a stock or lightly modded MT using forced induction (turbo or supercharger). Just ask Phil or 09Factor. Phil has the Pettit supercharger, and 09Factor has a modified Greddy turbo.
I would say if you can get a lower mileage 05, you will be happy. Just make sure it has any recalls taken care of. As far as I know the 05 only had one recall. I would say avoid the 04s if you can. But one could be ok if it is low mileage and had all the recalls done. I would say avoid a higher mileage 04 like the plague. Even if it had the recalls done, you don't know at what point in its life they were done.
The power satisfaction will depend on what you came from. If your suzuki isn't overly quick, you will be fine with this. However, be prepared for the fact that the gas mileage is poor for the power that you get. Most get mid to upper teens around town, and low to mid 20s on the highway. That is just the nature of the rotary engine. If you are looking for good mileage, the 8 is not the car to get, no matter what version you get.
But on the positive side, you get the incredible balance and agile handling that comes with the lighter weight, lower center of gravity, and front mid engine mounting location (the renesis fits completely behind the front axle in the 8).
You will learn that you can use the paddle shifters in the manual mode to keep the revs more in the powerband.
That said, the low mileage for the power level is what led me to start down the modding road. Figure if I can get more acceleration out of it, the gas mileage will be easier to take, and it is fun to try to take what you have and make it better. Once you start, it is very hard to quit. Plus the more acceleration you add, generally the worse the mileage will get. But I figure if I can get it capable of higher acceleration but still stay relatively close to the easy driving mileage, I will be happy. And this of course will involve FI at some point, that's just the way it goes with this car.
But really, if hard acceleation is a priority for you, the 8 is not the car to get.
But it is possible to mod an auto to be faster than a stock or lightly modded MT using forced induction (turbo or supercharger). Just ask Phil or 09Factor. Phil has the Pettit supercharger, and 09Factor has a modified Greddy turbo.
I would say if you can get a lower mileage 05, you will be happy. Just make sure it has any recalls taken care of. As far as I know the 05 only had one recall. I would say avoid the 04s if you can. But one could be ok if it is low mileage and had all the recalls done. I would say avoid a higher mileage 04 like the plague. Even if it had the recalls done, you don't know at what point in its life they were done.
The power satisfaction will depend on what you came from. If your suzuki isn't overly quick, you will be fine with this. However, be prepared for the fact that the gas mileage is poor for the power that you get. Most get mid to upper teens around town, and low to mid 20s on the highway. That is just the nature of the rotary engine. If you are looking for good mileage, the 8 is not the car to get, no matter what version you get.
But on the positive side, you get the incredible balance and agile handling that comes with the lighter weight, lower center of gravity, and front mid engine mounting location (the renesis fits completely behind the front axle in the 8).
You will learn that you can use the paddle shifters in the manual mode to keep the revs more in the powerband.
That said, the low mileage for the power level is what led me to start down the modding road. Figure if I can get more acceleration out of it, the gas mileage will be easier to take, and it is fun to try to take what you have and make it better. Once you start, it is very hard to quit. Plus the more acceleration you add, generally the worse the mileage will get. But I figure if I can get it capable of higher acceleration but still stay relatively close to the easy driving mileage, I will be happy. And this of course will involve FI at some point, that's just the way it goes with this car.
But really, if hard acceleation is a priority for you, the 8 is not the car to get.
Last edited by mdw1000; 03-14-2008 at 01:09 PM.
03-15-2008, 10:36 AM
#11
I'll snap his neck.
No problem. Ultimately you have to take it for a test drive and decide. Just make sure you take it for a drive that is more than just around the block to decide if it is right for you.
Just a warning - the great handling and smooth rotary engine can be addicting
Just a warning - the great handling and smooth rotary engine can be addicting
03-15-2008, 08:46 PM
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well its just that i work in the city and im just thinking its going to get tiring...dont forget us girls wear heels haha i have always driven an auto but i just hate the lack of power at times
03-18-2008, 07:54 AM
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Because many of us guys are married & want an RX-8. Many of the wifes want 4-doors & Automatics.
So its Auto RX-8 or no Rx-8........
KellyZ. All 03-07 model Auto versions run the 4-port 13B-MSP engine.
The 08 model Series-II due down under in a couple of months will have the 6-port 13B-MSP with 6-speed auto box.
Personally, my 03-model Auto has a few mods & it quite quicker than a regular Auto but not quite there against the manuals...........Yet.
REgards
So its Auto RX-8 or no Rx-8........
KellyZ. All 03-07 model Auto versions run the 4-port 13B-MSP engine.
The 08 model Series-II due down under in a couple of months will have the 6-port 13B-MSP with 6-speed auto box.
Personally, my 03-model Auto has a few mods & it quite quicker than a regular Auto but not quite there against the manuals...........Yet.
REgards
03-18-2008, 04:56 PM
#17
I'll snap his neck.
One good way to look at it is power to weight ratios. If you know a particular car that you like the acceleration of, look up its weight and power, and figure out the power to weight ratio. Then compare that to the cars you are considering. This is a very rough guide as gearing and power band can make a big difference, but it is the closest thing I can think of.
For example, my 8 is roughly 200 hp at the crank, and roughly 3100 pounds. So 3100 divided by 200 is 15.5 pounds per HP. A stock MT is roughly 230 at 3000 lbs, so it is about 13 lbs per hp. A 350Z is roughly 3300/300, or 11 lbs per hp.
03-18-2008, 09:04 PM
#18
Some drivers prefer the auto. Note that this discussion has been held several times and if you happen to notice your on the at threads. Please take you manual fanboi stuff to another thread
I drove the manual and autos and prefer the auto. The manual was a complete disappointment. If you want to hold a discussion the do so but do it on another thread. These threads are for a/t owners.
Well there are ways of making your at more responsive. Look into them and enjoy your 8 at.
Oh!! Really - Your the expert? OK I bow to your superior knowledge. Now go back to your other threads and preach to people that do not know better.
Even at owners succumb to the slanted information that some seem prone to post. In it's current configuration the stock 8 mt will always out perform the stock 8 at. With a little innovation and a few mods the at can be a fun vehicle.
Even at owners succumb to the slanted information that some seem prone to post. In it's current configuration the stock 8 mt will always out perform the stock 8 at. With a little innovation and a few mods the at can be a fun vehicle.
03-19-2008, 06:32 AM
#20
Originally Posted by VarneyMazda View Post
right now no luck yet.. you can boost and have decent power but if a MT is boosted there is no way to compete.
right now no luck yet.. you can boost and have decent power but if a MT is boosted there is no way to compete.
1. Depends on what kit, what HP level, AND the driver. Another thing- Equal HP, the AT has MORE torque.
More torque at the same HP, is a hidden advantage of the AT. However you have to close the HP gap and that will be more expensive for the AT.
2. The MT has around a 30HP to 20HP advantage. Depending on kit and setup, enough money, this can be overcome by an AT.
6AT vs 6MT, you are talking the SAME engine. With ECU reflash and AT cooler with High Temp AT fluid (Redline). The gap between AT and MT may be as little as 10HP or less. I'm talking NA and not even FI.
4AT vs 6MT, also depends on location as JDM 4AT (for example) was rated higher at at 210HP vs USDM at 197HP. To get the NA gap near 10HP of MT would require the luck of having a better built 4AT engine (that happens to test high) and being in a country with the higher HP rating.
6AT FI, should be pretty close to 6MT FI.
4AT would be harder; but with tender loving care, tweaks, and right kit can get closer.
3. True advantage of the MT would be 0-60, after that if at equal HP the 1/4 mile or track racing would be close.
A FI AT can take a NA MT. The same kit; FI AT vs FI MT, most likely the MT would win.
But if enough money was thrown the ATs way, yes it would be more expensive, the AT could close the gap or even win out at a higher PSI boost (thus assuming higher HP) vs a lower boost MT. However, not likely in the 0-60, but in the 1/4 mile, rolling start, or at the track.
Why AT?
Overall: some people are from high traffic areas, have a not stick driving wife/girlfriend (or scary driving wife/girlfriend), like zig and zagging through traffic (which is more easily done with the Auto), or can drive a stick but rather do other weird things in their car like watch TV, sex, talk on the phone, etc.... (Hold up... Flame suit activated)
Last edited by sosonic; 03-19-2008 at 06:38 AM.
03-19-2008, 07:10 AM
#21
Wrong.
1. Depends on what kit, what HP level, AND the driver. Another thing- Equal HP, the AT has MORE torque.
More torque at the same HP, is a hidden advantage of the AT. However you have to close the HP gap and that will be more expensive for the AT.
2. The MT has around a 30HP to 20HP advantage. Depending on kit and setup, enough money, this can be overcome by an AT.
6AT vs 6MT, you are talking the SAME engine. With ECU reflash and AT cooler with High Temp AT fluid (Redline). The gap between AT and MT may be as little as 10HP or less. I'm talking NA and not even FI.
4AT vs 6MT, also depends on location as JDM 4AT (for example) was rated higher at at 210HP vs USDM at 197HP. To get the NA gap near 10HP of MT would require the luck of having a better built 4AT engine (that happens to test high) and being in a country with the higher HP rating.
6AT FI, should be pretty close to 6MT FI.
4AT would be harder; but with tender loving care, tweaks, and right kit can get closer.
3. True advantage of the MT would be 0-60, after that if at equal HP the 1/4 mile or track racing would be close.
A FI AT can take a NA MT. The same kit; FI AT vs FI MT, most likely the MT would win.
But if enough money was thrown the ATs way, yes it would be more expensive, the AT could close the gap or even win out at a higher PSI boost (thus assuming higher HP) vs a lower boost MT. However, not likely in the 0-60, but in the 1/4 mile, rolling start, or at the track.
Why AT?
Overall: some people are from high traffic areas, have a not stick driving wife/girlfriend (or scary driving wife/girlfriend), like zig and zagging through traffic (which is more easily done with the Auto), or can drive a stick but rather do other weird things in their car like watch TV, sex, talk on the phone, etc.... (Hold up... Flame suit activated)
1. Depends on what kit, what HP level, AND the driver. Another thing- Equal HP, the AT has MORE torque.
More torque at the same HP, is a hidden advantage of the AT. However you have to close the HP gap and that will be more expensive for the AT.
2. The MT has around a 30HP to 20HP advantage. Depending on kit and setup, enough money, this can be overcome by an AT.
6AT vs 6MT, you are talking the SAME engine. With ECU reflash and AT cooler with High Temp AT fluid (Redline). The gap between AT and MT may be as little as 10HP or less. I'm talking NA and not even FI.
4AT vs 6MT, also depends on location as JDM 4AT (for example) was rated higher at at 210HP vs USDM at 197HP. To get the NA gap near 10HP of MT would require the luck of having a better built 4AT engine (that happens to test high) and being in a country with the higher HP rating.
6AT FI, should be pretty close to 6MT FI.
4AT would be harder; but with tender loving care, tweaks, and right kit can get closer.
3. True advantage of the MT would be 0-60, after that if at equal HP the 1/4 mile or track racing would be close.
A FI AT can take a NA MT. The same kit; FI AT vs FI MT, most likely the MT would win.
But if enough money was thrown the ATs way, yes it would be more expensive, the AT could close the gap or even win out at a higher PSI boost (thus assuming higher HP) vs a lower boost MT. However, not likely in the 0-60, but in the 1/4 mile, rolling start, or at the track.
Why AT?
Overall: some people are from high traffic areas, have a not stick driving wife/girlfriend (or scary driving wife/girlfriend), like zig and zagging through traffic (which is more easily done with the Auto), or can drive a stick but rather do other weird things in their car like watch TV, sex, talk on the phone, etc.... (Hold up... Flame suit activated)
03-19-2008, 11:08 AM
#23
I'll snap his neck.
Buy a silver 4-port AT, and you can join The Bastard Stepchildren of RX8Club Club. Or put FI on any AT and you can join as well.
- we'll get to see if this statement holds up 
