BigBadChris and the little turbo RX8
06-27-2015, 06:13 PM
#101
Thanks, Gregs!
I originally wanted the kit you have, but I couldn't afford it! The car was a garage queen the first nine years of its life. It did highway cruises down a toll road, to and from the golf course on Saturday mornings. I got it last year, and have done my best to keep it in good shape. College parking lots are not the gentlest environment, so I have a good relationship with a dent guy.
They did indeed make 4AT with no sunroof. I'm a tall guy, so that inch of headroom was quite critical. It does, however, have the interior from a Grand Touring. That red and black was just too nice to pass up.
I am looking forward to your results with the Greddy boost controller. I have an AEM tru boost myself, but programmable boost throughout the revs sounds quite awesome.
I originally wanted the kit you have, but I couldn't afford it! The car was a garage queen the first nine years of its life. It did highway cruises down a toll road, to and from the golf course on Saturday mornings. I got it last year, and have done my best to keep it in good shape. College parking lots are not the gentlest environment, so I have a good relationship with a dent guy.
They did indeed make 4AT with no sunroof. I'm a tall guy, so that inch of headroom was quite critical. It does, however, have the interior from a Grand Touring. That red and black was just too nice to pass up.
I am looking forward to your results with the Greddy boost controller. I have an AEM tru boost myself, but programmable boost throughout the revs sounds quite awesome.
06-29-2015, 02:26 PM
#102
Former Sponsor
Update!
Hi guys, I wanted to chime in here with some info regarding this project.
We have been working on the car for the last few days and things are progressing nicely. As stated previously this was a top mount version of an earlier kit and the transformation to a low mount is underway!
A new 3" stainless steel downpipe is finished up and Chris has opted to have the wastegate routed back into the exhaust. It's an authentic Tial44mm and had to be relocated slightly due to the transmission pan being exactly in the way. That said, although it's really tight, it fits and is above the lower factory crossbrace.
Btw Chris, you'll be happy to know it can be vented to atmosphere in case you decide try that as well!
We are making a new right side charge tube similar to our current low mount Renesis kit and are fabricating a new intake also very similiar to our current kit.
The motor mounts are also being revised to use a drivers side motormount from the stainless steel units we offer and the passenger side bushings are more robust as well.
Progress continues...stay tuned!
We have been working on the car for the last few days and things are progressing nicely. As stated previously this was a top mount version of an earlier kit and the transformation to a low mount is underway!
A new 3" stainless steel downpipe is finished up and Chris has opted to have the wastegate routed back into the exhaust. It's an authentic Tial44mm and had to be relocated slightly due to the transmission pan being exactly in the way. That said, although it's really tight, it fits and is above the lower factory crossbrace.
Btw Chris, you'll be happy to know it can be vented to atmosphere in case you decide try that as well!
We are making a new right side charge tube similar to our current low mount Renesis kit and are fabricating a new intake also very similiar to our current kit.
The motor mounts are also being revised to use a drivers side motormount from the stainless steel units we offer and the passenger side bushings are more robust as well.
Progress continues...stay tuned!
06-30-2015, 09:04 PM
#103
Hey Chris
Good on you for sticking to your choices, but mind you after reading through your thread, i think the blokes are trying to help out. But due to this bring rx8club the advices come out harsh and easily mis-interpreted as attacks.
I have tried 4 different types of Engine Tuning. Microtec (Interceptor X), Hymee Flash, Adaptronics and Mazda edit. Let me tell you, Flash tuning is always the way to go.
The Microtec Ecu has issues with low rev, there is a huge spot where your car WILL bog down, and no amount of tuning can get rid of it, your Revs will go all crazy, and guess where that is, 2.8-3k rev where you spend the majority of time cruising. It has been a long time so i can not quite remeber, but i think it had something to do with your car's low rev range and idles not controllable via piggy back and the transition from MAF tuning to MAP tuning is what causes the bog. THIS APPLIES TO ADAPTRONICS TOO. Also this might have been my situation with the extra load from supercharger, but with the Interceptor unable to tune idle my car will STALL with AC on. Also i believe the Interceptor requires you to manage the coil pack with another module.
Ideally Flash tuning through MazdaEdit is the sure bet, out of them the Interceptor and the Adaptronic always feel forced, there is alot of hestitation and it just DOES NOT have that FACTORY feel.
But flash tuning is hard to implement and if your builder is not comfortable with it then stick with piggy back ECU.
BUT What i really recommend is to get the MazdaEdit Personal Edition (not expensive) and get someone like Brettus to tune out your idles and misc stuff that the MAP (Only Fuel Air Ratio) can not control. This is ideal.
I have spent big $$$ on all the ECU options, Including Dyno Tuning. I even flew Andy the creator of Adaptronics out to me for the dyno tuning, and it still did not feel optimal. Just food for thought there.
Please take this as constructive criticism, from someone that has been there and shat away money.
Good on you for sticking to your choices, but mind you after reading through your thread, i think the blokes are trying to help out. But due to this bring rx8club the advices come out harsh and easily mis-interpreted as attacks.
I have tried 4 different types of Engine Tuning. Microtec (Interceptor X), Hymee Flash, Adaptronics and Mazda edit. Let me tell you, Flash tuning is always the way to go.
The Microtec Ecu has issues with low rev, there is a huge spot where your car WILL bog down, and no amount of tuning can get rid of it, your Revs will go all crazy, and guess where that is, 2.8-3k rev where you spend the majority of time cruising. It has been a long time so i can not quite remeber, but i think it had something to do with your car's low rev range and idles not controllable via piggy back and the transition from MAF tuning to MAP tuning is what causes the bog. THIS APPLIES TO ADAPTRONICS TOO. Also this might have been my situation with the extra load from supercharger, but with the Interceptor unable to tune idle my car will STALL with AC on. Also i believe the Interceptor requires you to manage the coil pack with another module.
Ideally Flash tuning through MazdaEdit is the sure bet, out of them the Interceptor and the Adaptronic always feel forced, there is alot of hestitation and it just DOES NOT have that FACTORY feel.
But flash tuning is hard to implement and if your builder is not comfortable with it then stick with piggy back ECU.
BUT What i really recommend is to get the MazdaEdit Personal Edition (not expensive) and get someone like Brettus to tune out your idles and misc stuff that the MAP (Only Fuel Air Ratio) can not control. This is ideal.
I have spent big $$$ on all the ECU options, Including Dyno Tuning. I even flew Andy the creator of Adaptronics out to me for the dyno tuning, and it still did not feel optimal. Just food for thought there.
Please take this as constructive criticism, from someone that has been there and shat away money.
06-30-2015, 09:48 PM
#104
Tofu
Thank you for taking the time.
That was THE most articulate critique of Int X, Adaptronic, etc that I have found on this site. So a big thank you for speaking clearly. Most people are just content to tell me Int X sucks and move on.
I have begun reading the Mazdaedit threads, but it is very technical. My day job is hardware troubleshooting, software is the other side of the office. I know I will have to do a reflash to get the CEL to go away, and to up OMP injection, etc. If I have to pay someone to do it, that's the way it goes.
Hesitation with the piggyback? That is less than ideal! I take it this is a latency, due to the information going from Ecu to piggyback? I am using Int X because that's what my tuner is most comfortable with. He said he was looking into flash tuning, but was not ready to offer it yet.
What transmission fluid are you using? (Did you use something else with your stock unit?)
Thank you for taking the time.
That was THE most articulate critique of Int X, Adaptronic, etc that I have found on this site. So a big thank you for speaking clearly. Most people are just content to tell me Int X sucks and move on.
I have begun reading the Mazdaedit threads, but it is very technical. My day job is hardware troubleshooting, software is the other side of the office. I know I will have to do a reflash to get the CEL to go away, and to up OMP injection, etc. If I have to pay someone to do it, that's the way it goes.
Hesitation with the piggyback? That is less than ideal! I take it this is a latency, due to the information going from Ecu to piggyback? I am using Int X because that's what my tuner is most comfortable with. He said he was looking into flash tuning, but was not ready to offer it yet.
What transmission fluid are you using? (Did you use something else with your stock unit?)
06-30-2015, 10:26 PM
#105
Tofu and I had a lot of "fun" tuning his car .... but I think we got there in the end . There are some odd things that happen when you change injectors that took some time to get around . You shouldn't get this with the Microtech .
Sounds like the install is going well ... good to hear !
Sounds like the install is going well ... good to hear !
07-01-2015, 09:05 PM
#106
The Microtec Ecu has issues with low rev, there is a huge spot where your car WILL bog down, and no amount of tuning can get rid of it, your Revs will go all crazy, and guess where that is, 2.8-3k rev where you spend the majority of time cruising. It has been a long time so i can not quite remeber, but i think it had something to do with your car's low rev range and idles not controllable via piggy back and the transition from MAF tuning to MAP tuning is what causes the bog. THIS APPLIES TO ADAPTRONICS TOO.
Thanks for the insight!
07-01-2015, 11:41 PM
#110
I would think that the standalone nature of any dedicated aftermarket ECU would mean it's in control. If there were a "transition", how could that happen? You couldn't wire the fuel pump, fuel injectors, coils and plugs in parallel, getting inputs from two computers. That would be a nightmare. Not to mention, how would the second ECU know when to stop listening to the first ECU? "Use MAF input at less than 1/4 throttle, or 3k rpm, whatever comes first" ???
I think Tofu had problems because he increased the parasitic draw on his engine. We all know the AC compressor kicking on causes hesitation on a stock engine. On a modified engine, with extra drag on the pulleys, I can see that being hard to compensate for.
Just my two cents
I think Tofu had problems because he increased the parasitic draw on his engine. We all know the AC compressor kicking on causes hesitation on a stock engine. On a modified engine, with extra drag on the pulleys, I can see that being hard to compensate for.
Just my two cents
07-02-2015, 12:14 AM
#111
Thank you for that post Tofu. I've been very happy with my flash tuned results but at the same time wondered if the buzz around other methods has any benefit for the DD application. I do see merits beyond the DD world, but I honestly don't have any complaints for my scenario. If I have any deficiencies I am unaware of them so I've been wondering if I am missing out, as I haven't tried any other solutions. It seems one would need something like an AP or ME to deal with MIL/CEL issues anyway, no? My only battle at this time is cooling in triple digit weather lol 
07-02-2015, 07:49 AM
#113
Thia isn't a discussion about the Int X, my question is about any stand alone MAP based ECU. In fact I even asked about your holy grail, the Adaptronic, which Tofu mentioned has a similar issue. Since you are such an Adaptronic fan boy, maybe you could say something in its defense?
BTW, thanks for your input. I would hate to go a week without getting reminded that Team doesn't approve of my choice of parts.
I have read every thread that comes up when you search Intercetpor X. Not a single one mentions this "transition" between MAF and MAP, so I decided to ask a question.
BTW, thanks for your input. I would hate to go a week without getting reminded that Team doesn't approve of my choice of parts.
I have read every thread that comes up when you search Intercetpor X. Not a single one mentions this "transition" between MAF and MAP, so I decided to ask a question.
Last edited by BigBadChris; 07-02-2015 at 07:54 AM.
07-02-2015, 10:42 AM
#114
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Locally we have noticed no such lag on the Adaptronic we recently installed. It is not fully tuned yet but so far so good at low load, idle, and low boost running around town. We shall see once we crank it up and get a proper tuners hands on it.
The problems with the Intx is just crappy correction maps for a daily driver that sees normal temperature fluctuations so most who I knew who had it just hated the drivability issues with it in certain normal street car conditions.
So for instance in Texas when it got hot as ****, my buddies turbo RX-8 with the Interceptor would run like **** and so he would have to adjust the tune a few times a year. It really only controlled fuel and ignition and just doesn't work well with the stock ECU. And overall it is just doesn't have good resolution or granularity as compared to other tuning options. My buddies car was fast when it was working well but overall it was a pain in the ***. Sadly he bowed out before AP tuning options became reasonably available.
I mean overall, the Microtech LT-10 is just not a great product for any application. People have made it work but they call it the Microwreck for a reason.
The problems with the Intx is just crappy correction maps for a daily driver that sees normal temperature fluctuations so most who I knew who had it just hated the drivability issues with it in certain normal street car conditions.
So for instance in Texas when it got hot as ****, my buddies turbo RX-8 with the Interceptor would run like **** and so he would have to adjust the tune a few times a year. It really only controlled fuel and ignition and just doesn't work well with the stock ECU. And overall it is just doesn't have good resolution or granularity as compared to other tuning options. My buddies car was fast when it was working well but overall it was a pain in the ***. Sadly he bowed out before AP tuning options became reasonably available.
I mean overall, the Microtech LT-10 is just not a great product for any application. People have made it work but they call it the Microwreck for a reason.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 07-02-2015 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Spelling
07-02-2015, 11:03 AM
#115
Former Sponsor
Hi Guys,
We have opted to build new drivers side charge tubes for Chris's project as well to bring the design closer to the current RX-8 kit we offer. The new C.A.I. is built and we made sure it will be compatible with Map based tuning or Maf based tuning as well to avoid the need to replace items if a switch it made in the future.
Briefly, in an attempt to not derail the thread, in the INT-X there is no switching from MAF to MAP occurring. It runs the factory coils, the injectors and other engine components/events based on the MAP input as a traditional stand alone would except it's plug and play. The Maf is still integrated and controls other systems of the vehicle as does the factory ecu.
The INT-X was a proprietary configuration so although it does use a Microtech component, it is not the same as the standard off the shelf RX8 Microtech unit.
We are waiting on a MAF flange today and they everything is off to the coating shop.
Stay tuned, Scott
We have opted to build new drivers side charge tubes for Chris's project as well to bring the design closer to the current RX-8 kit we offer. The new C.A.I. is built and we made sure it will be compatible with Map based tuning or Maf based tuning as well to avoid the need to replace items if a switch it made in the future.
Briefly, in an attempt to not derail the thread, in the INT-X there is no switching from MAF to MAP occurring. It runs the factory coils, the injectors and other engine components/events based on the MAP input as a traditional stand alone would except it's plug and play. The Maf is still integrated and controls other systems of the vehicle as does the factory ecu.
The INT-X was a proprietary configuration so although it does use a Microtech component, it is not the same as the standard off the shelf RX8 Microtech unit.
We are waiting on a MAF flange today and they everything is off to the coating shop.
Stay tuned, Scott
07-02-2015, 11:26 AM
#117
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Yes, it is a forum member, his forum name is Hoss-05, he has a thread. But again it is not fully tuned and his car is not an Auto which brings it's own set of differences/difficulties.
As for what the Microwreck is capable of, I will just sit back and watch and see where you are with once it is actually running.
As for what the Microwreck is capable of, I will just sit back and watch and see where you are with once it is actually running.
07-02-2015, 12:01 PM
#118
Lets get the record straight. I made a direct comment, but went back and edited it to not be so strongly worded before you even posted anything about it. You obviously have a serious hangup over it because your the person who keeps bringing it up. Otherwise I'm content to sit back and see the results just as I had suggested previously. I don't agree with your choice, so BFD. Plenty of people don't avree with me either. Get over it already and just move on.
07-02-2015, 01:10 PM
#120
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
But his build is finally there after some local shops finally did what they were paid to do. He doesn't get on here much but his car is up and running now so hopefully we can get him squared away soon.
Good luck on your build.
07-02-2015, 01:17 PM
#122
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Definitely, we are an active group and most of us have remained RX-8 owners for almost a decade now so we certainly have learned who to deal with, and who to steer away from. Lot's of mistakes have been made and lot's of money has been wasted. We try to give people a heads up (although I do in a far different way than most of the other SARX members) when we can but you can't save them all, RX owners are a stubborn bunch.
07-04-2015, 02:15 PM
#123
I've been running the Inter-x for 4+ years with no problems at all types of climates/altitudes.
All day @12-16psi & ZERO drivability issues with over 30k miles on my setup.
Op... Yes there are newer/better options.
It's all in the tune/set-up. G/L with you build.
.
Last edited by firecran; 07-04-2015 at 02:29 PM.
07-04-2015, 02:47 PM
#125
Interesting...
I've been running the Inter-x for 4+ years with no problems at all types of climates/altitudes.
All day @12-16psi & ZERO drivability issues with over 30k miles on my setup.
Op... Yes there are newer/better options.
It's all in the tune/set-up. G/L with you build.
.
I've been running the Inter-x for 4+ years with no problems at all types of climates/altitudes.
All day @12-16psi & ZERO drivability issues with over 30k miles on my setup.
Op... Yes there are newer/better options.
It's all in the tune/set-up. G/L with you build.
.
It is ALL in the tune.......
