guitarjunkie28

hold up... i want egt's too.

alright, we've all seen "stage 3", "stage 8", "stage 9 thousand" whatever around... i can't stand this shameless marketing ploy designed to lure in guys who just plain don't know any better.

with this porting, i think i'll call it mild and aggressive, where the mild will be not hacking through the coolant passage to retain the original integrity of the port wall. aggressive will be hoggin' that **** out and having the hole patched up by my homeboy at the welding shop. i believe that once it's welded, it's a done deal and will be as strong as the original, but since it hasn't been tested yet, please take that as ONLY my belief, and definately not fact, the word, truth, undeniable, etc. etc.

Aoshi Shinomori

EGT's? Explain please?
Exhaust gas temps?

guitarjunkie28

exactly. i'd like to know how they will be effected.
since we're focusing on getting the gas out more easily and not solely on getting more air in, i don't think the afr's will change to any great extent...maybe somewhere between 2 and 3/10ths of a point to the lean side--which is fine considering how rich these things run to begin with.

ranger4277

Something about this thread seems a little....... sticky. :D

Will you please photo-document the process, or at least the final porting for educational purposes guitarjunkie? This thread needs to be dipped in gold and preserved for all time. Hats of to whomever has the ***** to participate in this pioneering effort. Look forward to all the dyno info!

Aoshi Shinomori

Ah, thanks, I wasn't sure what you meant, good luck with your project. Can't wait for the dynos. :D

s13lover

Since the stock exhaust ports are so restrictive, I can see why aftermarket exhaust only add 3-4 hp. Really with the flow so bottled up by those two 90 degree turns in the motor, any change to the flow characteristics beyond them are trivial to performace. So not only will changing these ports allow the motor to make more power, they should also allow an higher flowing exhaust to do its job and make even more power, yes? Say 8-10 hp for an exhaust on a ported motor.

guitarjunkie28

i think you hit the nail on the head there s13

ideally, i'd like to see a bone stock setup, then stock+ full exhaust,
ported/stock exhaust, then ported/ full exhaust.

i think that 8-10 hp gain will be increased by quite a bit. maybe not the 60 bolt on hp like on the fc's, but enough to give you an extra kick in hte butt when you're on it.

guitarjunkie28

btw, i'm honored to be nominated for a sticky.

i'd like to thank the academy :D

Aoshi Shinomori

Hahaha. I think it's great that we have another DIY tuner doing somethine awesome like this. Thanks for sharing all of your info, it's really appreciated by all the tuners out there.

guitarjunkie28

i do stuff from home, but since cars are my sole source of income (and rotaries are 90% of that), i like to think of myself as just a little bit more than a diy'er. thanks for the compliment though!

Snoochie

Well can you recommend a place good for a dyno in our area? I'll make my way there as soon as I can. I know GT Motorsports has one but I've received mixed opinions about that place. It's not really that big of a deal getting precise numbers for my car cause all we're looking for is the difference before and afterward. Also maintaining consistent situations and stuff like that. Just let me know of a place and I'll be there. Lata.

P.S. It should only take me half an hour. 2 speeding tickets in the last year to prove it. hehe jk

Snoochie

Also I have a dig camera so I'd supply the pics of the whole process.

Aoshi Shinomori

Was not aware of that, but that makes your research all the more credible(not knocking the DIYers, we love you guys too)

guitarjunkie28

thanks,
but some people make breakthroughs in fields totally unrelated to their work. rotorgod sounds like he knows more about porting than i do, and i do it all the time...he's a real estate agent (i think that was it). just goes to show anyone can do anything.

i've found that the only real difference between diy'ers and professionals is the presentation and clarity in the explanation. the very best automotive i've ever seen has come from garages--not big name shops. i'm always reading books and studying. i like to think i'm really good at what i do, but i still learn new stuff all the time. that's why i'm taking a more objective approach for doing the renesis motor.

Aoshi Shinomori

I hope it all works out, and I'm glad that you're working to better the performance of this awesome car. It must be pretty a pretty neat job, I'd love to do something like this, but therein lies the dilemma, I'm not too good when it comes to tools, or building things or anything like that.

guitarjunkie28

snoochi,
i found out yesterday there's a dyno right by my house!! only $55 an hour too. i've got a new shop! one thing is the numbers will be slightly lower due to the 4500 foot elevation. where we do it isn't important, just as long as we do it at the same place after too.

how quick do you wanna do this?

G8rboy

This is very cool- thanks guitarjunkie for contributing your time to this cause. I'm very eager to see the results... :D

guitarjunkie28

well i gotta be honest...i'll donate the first one to research, then i have proof of hp gains so i can start charging. it's like an investment for me, so i'm not as noble as it seems :D

Snoochie

It'd need to be a monday or wednesday. I work 15 hour days on sun/tue/thur/fri/sat. In fact I'm at work right now letting everyone else work cause I'm so hyped about this. I just gotta let my professor know I'm not going to class and everything should be cool. Lemme know if you can do it next monday or wednesday...

Snoochie

I could "in theory" be able to do it another day, I'd have to do some major getting people to cover me. I'd just prefer not going that route.

guitarjunkie28

i usually don't know what's going on until it's already happened...
so gimma a call when you wanna do it and we'll get the dyno done. if you can get an egt in the car before then, that'd be great!

after the dyno run, all i need is the irons and we can knock out the porting in one day. i've already got the templates made.

rotarygod

I do have to comment on one thing guitar' (I play too btw), I disagree with cutting into the water jacket and then rewelding it up. I strongly believe that it is ported too far at this point. This is also the large turn radius of the port and this area actually doesn't need to be as sharp or deep. The port does not need to be so large that it cuts into this. The timing will get too big at this poit anyways. That would be opening the exhaust ports way too early. Too early is bad for low end power. While this seems like a good compromise remember that the lack of port overlap hurts top end power. Don't cancel yourself out. Don't take the exhaust ports down any lower than the bottom of the runner. This is getting too crazy on the opening timing. We need to be more focused on port velocity over port volume. This is the whole point of movig the exhaust port down even with the bottom of the runner. It is a big turbulent wall right now. It would be one thing if the exhaust sleeve matched with the stock port openings but they don't. We are just smoothening flow but trying not to go any larger than necessary on the ports. They are already 50% greater in area than a stock 13B exhaust port.

The intake side should only be cleaned up. Maybe close the primaries a little later but just focus on the runner to port short turn radius transition. I actuall fill the back of the port in thus area with epoxy to help accelerate flow through here. I don't recommend this to everyone unless they know the proper preparation and epoxy to use.

I'll see if I can find a picture of a Renesis housing to draw where the timing marks should be enlarged to.

Snoochie

Where and how would I do the egt? Ima probably take my car into the dealership on monday and have them fix stuff and get the M-flash. Can they do it?

Edit: RG, thanks for the input, want this to be as good as possible for ma baby.

guitarjunkie28

Don't take the exhaust ports down any lower than the bottom of the runner.

you end up cutting through the water jacket BEFORE you get it even with the port runner!! i really didnt' open them up that early, i think i just made it seem that way with statements like.."i hogged through that ****" i'm really quite a bit more conservative than i lead on. you've got some great advice though. i think i'm right on this one, but i will absolutely not shun your advice! i'd like to do 2-one each way and compare them side by side. since most of your power is generated in the first half of the expansion cycle, i don't think advancing the port opening will have any noticably adverse effect on low end (keep in mind i said THINK--i could still be wrong), and if it does, i think it will more than make up through improved scavenging through the midrange and top end. wish we had the time and money--we'd probably make a good pair for opening a shop.

so if we go through the water jackets or not is gonna be snoochy's choice--it's his motor. i think the results will be just fine either way though.

guitarjunkie28

the fastest reacting egt i've ever seen is the defi d gauge.

maybe in the exhaust manifold, right after the last port. i would say about 6 inches down, but i think it's got a cat right there and that may throw the readings off... ummm anyone got a better idea on where to stick that thing?

mine's 6 inches after the turbo...oh yea, you guys don't have turbos. my bad
my motor goes brap brap brap :D